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Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

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Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a new drug platform because the current model only satisfy the owners of the pharma corporations.

this has nothing to do with how Big Pharma develops drugs...

I suspect the parent was referring to the lack of incentives for big pharma to develop new antibiotics, which is of course very relevant in a discussion around resistance to existing drugs.

I don't believe this to be a contentious issue. It is well understood that the current model and associated costs of drug development provide little incentive for research and development of novel antibiotics.

In the words of the infectious diseases physician I referenced in another comment:

For the past 75 years, we've relied on a partnership between the federal government and big pharma to bring new antibiotics to market. And what we're seeing is that that partnership is dissolving, and it's dissolving for the simple reason that pharmaceutical companies increasingly are having trouble making a profit off of antibiotics.

The reason for that is if you think about an antibiotic, they are prescribed in short courses. And doctors are very stingy about doling them out. And even the best new antibiotic may wear out its welcome when the bacteria become resistant. So what we're finding is that these companies say, why would we want to make a product that doctors don't want to prescribe?

Now to address this, there are a number of policy proposals on the table. They're called push and pull incentives, which can entice these companies to stay in the antibiotic business. A push incentive might be something where you go to a company that's making billions of dollars and say we'll cut your corporate tax rate if you promise to invest some of those profits into new antibiotics. This is a sure-fire way to get more money into the pipeline. However, many people recoil at the idea of giving a tax break to a multi-billion dollar company.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/02/729120288/-superbugs-book-chr...

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#33
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this has nothing to do with how Big Pharma develops drugs...

Why ? If new antibiotics are not profitable in the long run, then you don't do that. That was presented in the podcast. What is your explanation?

My explanation is the problem lies in the food source, not antibiotics. We can't rely on the continuous increase in the use of antibiotics to prevent a food cataclysm.

Presumably any newly developed antibiotic would be sold for prices similar to existing ones, if not for a premium. If this results in decreasing profits, then we must conclude development costs are rising, which suggests finding new antibiotics is increasingly harder. Sure, we can throw taxpayer money at it to have more drugs developed and introduced in the near-to-mid term, but if finding new antibiotics is indeed continuously harder, at some point it will also be too expensive for public money to finance R&D

We have to aim to solve the root cause, not just mindlessly continue to throw money at it

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#34

I've been a vegetarian for a few years. Part of the impetus for my choice was the lack of regulation and health code standards in this country. Recent news that the federal government is reducing inspection of meat really does scare me. How many people need to die (like in the early 1900s) before we re-realize the importance of these regulations on public life? When will the next Upton Sinclair come along?

Upton Sinclair lamented the fact that nobody really got the point of The Jungle. I think after all this time he is about to be proven right.

I mean the same thing happened to Orwell. He was a democratic socialist who literally went to war with the fascists in Spain but people think Animal Farm is meant to be a rebuke of communism generally (and not Stalinism specifically).

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#35

Source paper https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6459/eaaw1944.ful... >From 2000 to 2018, the proportion of antimicrobial compounds with resistance higher than 50% (P50) increased from 0.15 to 0.41 in chickens and from 0.13 to 0.34 in pigs and plateaued between 0.12 and 0.23 in cattle. >Globally, 73% of all antimicrobials sold on Earth are used in animals raised for food. Jeeeesus. It sure feels like humanity…

It's humanity being painted in a corner, but it's very specific groups of people doing it. Most humanity is also not evolutionary trained in fighting issues, but it's really good at fighting people.

Now, if only scientists could learn how to point fingers...

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#36
post #17

"the four types of antimicrobial drug most commonly used in farm animals to help them gain weight — tetracyclines, sulfonamides, quinolones and penicillins — are also the ones with highest resistance rates." It never ceases to amaze me the decisions that we as a species make with full knowledge of the consequences that seem to be geared towards implementing wide spread disaster. We as a species have very much decided…

What's rational for the individual is not always well aligned with what's rational for the society.

There are negative externalities, in other words, and a truly well functioning economy would align bad behavior with higher costs, surely we can get there...?

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#37
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a new drug platform because the current model only satisfy the owners of the pharma corporations.

I recently listened to a podcast featuring Dr Matt McCarthy, who is an infection diseases physician and ethics professor and who authored the book Superbugs[1]. He did a good job (to a layperson such as myself anyway) of explaining why big pharma don't have much incentive to develop new antibiotics, possible financial interventions that may makes sense, and the alternative treatments that are being developed. I haven…

The simple reason is pharma wants to develop chronic use drugs or cancer drugs, and why would they want to make antibiotics that are carefully rationed, if profits are lower? Seems to me, we may need a socialized, international effort, an ISS of antibiotic development.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#38
Well, if course they are. Chinese farmers use antibiotics like candy. Even the stuff that the West considers reserve antibiotics of last resort. There is zero possibility of any Western pressure making them stop. Look also at the CO2 they emit and the plastic they dump in the ocean. The CCP has only two modes, rising living standards by questionable means, and mass die-offs of the population. This is the strategy of Mao.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upton Sinclair lamented the fact that nobody really got the point of The Jungle. I think after all this time he is about to be proven right.

You're correct that he complained about that, but the point was supposed to be about the exploitation and abuse of laborers.

That's true, but "exploitation and abuse of laborers" and "tubercular beef" were ultimately caused by the same thing.

Re: Farm animals in India and China are becoming more resistant to antibiotics

#40

Source paper https://science.sciencemag.org/content/365/6459/eaaw1944.ful... >From 2000 to 2018, the proportion of antimicrobial compounds with resistance higher than 50% (P50) increased from 0.15 to 0.41 in chickens and from 0.13 to 0.34 in pigs and plateaued between 0.12 and 0.23 in cattle. >Globally, 73% of all antimicrobials sold on Earth are used in animals raised for food. Jeeeesus. It sure feels like humanity…

One small way consumers can help is to reduce animal consumption. As an industry it releases a decent amount of greenhouse gasses, it creates antibiotic resistance, and it uses a ton of land and water (many of the people burning the Amazon are cattle ranchers). It's also very closely tied to actual consumer demand so consumers can affect it pretty easily.
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