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My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

latimes.com

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Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#91

Post by stebann »

goldcd wrote: post #8

I was happily nodding along, until I got to: "Somehow, he managed to obtain copies of the IBM entrance examination questions and answers, which he surreptitiously shared with promising young black job applicants. He coached them on passing the exam and succeeding in their interviews. Many were subsequently hired." I'm sure this helped contribute to an increase in black hires, but is a stupidly short-sighted thing to…

Maybe unwise and short-sighted. Human beings aren't perfect, even who fight racism. I think his legacy goes far beyond that point.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#92

Post by carapace »

kls wrote: post #82
carapace wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (TLDR start reading here) That's not how that works.

That's how it works for me, everything before it was bait. I am not a writer (have dyslexia and digraphia and am a huge benefactor of spell check) and tend to write stream of consciousness (hence all the weird parenthesis that are out of context but relate to what I am thinking, like this one). I will admit it was a slide of hand, but the meat of my post was after the TLDR so not totally a scam.

> That's how it works for me

The Humpty-Dumpty prerogative ? I can respect that.

> "When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'. 'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'. 'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all."

i'm not really complaining, you communicate well enough.

I tend to be literal-minded and the mid-stream "marker" to "start reading here" threw me off.

My pet peeve in re: "TL;DR:" is when people put it at the end, it's like, what's the point? I already read the thing. You're too late. Put it at the start. (Also, it's called "summary" or "abstract" people, sheesh!)

Then along comes kls, just slighting it in after a few paragraphs, completely repurposed, and, well, I couldn't help myself. Sorry dude.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#93

Post by kls »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #47
kls wrote: post #29

Tangentially related to the article but I think my story is a good reality check for myself and others about racism. Now I am one of those individuals that ascribe every malty or advantage to racism but I absolutely agree that in form it still exists and sometimes those perpetuating it do not even know they are doing it. Anyways on to my story and on to one of the absolute best things that ever happened to me in my l…

>'That being said, had someone of my same race had not choose me over the more qualified candidate I would not be where I am today', // That's clearly unfair. The insinuation is that only non-black people can achieve the best qualifications, which seems exceedingly offensive. What was your intended take-away -- surely not "nepotism/racism are fine if you're black [in USA]"?

Sorry you got down-voted your comment was very valid to the discussion. I agree, it was unfair but the value of the lesson was worth far more than the slight loss of opportunity for me. That is the thing, because I had built a name for myself, it was of little consequence that I lost this opportunity, but it was a life changer for the CTO that was selected because he had never been afforded the opportunities that I had.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#94

Post by golemiprague »

goldcd wrote: post #73
Angostura wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he was saying it was unwise to tell anyone about it.

The specific thing I was thinking, was that the guys who got in after them probably had their own stories of being "the 2nd or 3rd black guy in an IBM office" - which I'd have thought would likewise be a source of pride to them and their families. Then this appears, which might indicate that they might (maybe didn't happen, maybe not to this candidate) have had the interview answers given to them. It potentially tain…

Well, nobody believe black people achieved whatever they achieved fairly even today. We all know that many of them are admitted into universities and work places to increase diversity and not because of their skills or capabilities. So even if someone is skilled and capable most people will suspect he is there because of affirmative action

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#95

Post by kortilla »

bdamm wrote: post #75
goldcd wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific thing I was thinking, was that the guys who got in after them probably had their own stories of being "the 2nd or 3rd black guy in an IBM office" - which I'd have thought would likewise be a source of pride to them and their families. Then this appears, which might indicate that they might (maybe didn't happen, maybe not to this candidate) have had the interview answers given to them. It potentially tain…

Folks sometimes say two wrongs don't make a right, but when I look at this kind of thing and try to put myself in the shoes of a person that's experienced race-based bullying their entire life and are trying to edge up any way they can and against pretty much all odds, it looks less like a wrong and more like opportunism.

Yep, but it doesn’t help any arguments about a minority being as technically capable when they are literally cheating to get in.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#96

Post by goog-anon »

anon9922 wrote: post #90
goog-anon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black engineer here at a FANG. I do this all the time with black candidates who interview. In fact I use my round to coach them on the upcoming rounds and give them stellar feedback afterward. I know many would think this is ethically egregious, but it is only balancing the unbelievable prejudice against them by Asian interviewers who would not pass a black candidate under any circumstance.

Is it fair to assume then that when you interview an Asian candidate, you will hold them to a much higher bar than black candidates? Or perhaps under no circumstances would you pass them for a role that another Black candidate is applying for? I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived…

>I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived racism with actual racism.

No one think they have ever discriminated against someone based on ethnicity. Even Donald Trump sincerely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the least racist person who has ever walked this good earth. But actions speak louder than words, and my real life experiences are not 'perceived', nor are the results. If a black candidate has two Asian interviewers in a loop, chances of hire are nil, no matter the skill of the candidate. This is based on a sample of ~15-20. I really wish tech companies collected data about the ethnic background of both the interviewers, candidates and the results to clearly illuminate this glaring problem, otherwise everything I say is anecdotal/heresay.

Even speaking for myself, when I've interviewed the only places I've received offers were during loops where there was a max of one asian interviewer.

As for your first question, I'm getting into murky waters but I'll admit that it is difficult to put aside the fact that every Asian you hire, makes it harder for another black candidate to get hired. But it's definitely not as simple as rejecting every asian candidate, definitely don't want to leave a pattern behind :)

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#98

Post by lallysingh »

anon9922 wrote: post #90
goog-anon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black engineer here at a FANG. I do this all the time with black candidates who interview. In fact I use my round to coach them on the upcoming rounds and give them stellar feedback afterward. I know many would think this is ethically egregious, but it is only balancing the unbelievable prejudice against them by Asian interviewers who would not pass a black candidate under any circumstance.

Is it fair to assume then that when you interview an Asian candidate, you will hold them to a much higher bar than black candidates? Or perhaps under no circumstances would you pass them for a role that another Black candidate is applying for? I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived…

He didn't say all Asian interviewers were racist. But I certainly saw that subtle "not one of us" bias at Google for black candidates and employees.

FAANGs are still American companies. They didn't check their historical baggage at the door.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#99

Post by ecorithm »

goog-anon wrote: post #96
anon9922 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it fair to assume then that when you interview an Asian candidate, you will hold them to a much higher bar than black candidates? Or perhaps under no circumstances would you pass them for a role that another Black candidate is applying for? I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived…

>I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived racism with actual racism. No one think they have ever discriminated against someone based on ethnicity. Even Donald Trump sincerely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the least racist person who has ever walked this good earth. But ac…

> As for your first question, I'm getting into murky waters but I'll admit that it is difficult to put aside the fact that every Asian you hire, makes it harder for another black candidate to get hired. But it's definitely not as simple as rejecting every asian candidate, definitely don't want to leave a pattern behind :) i'l leave it there.

This has to be Poe's law. This is incredibly racist.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#100

Post by anon9922 »

goog-anon wrote: post #96
anon9922 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it fair to assume then that when you interview an Asian candidate, you will hold them to a much higher bar than black candidates? Or perhaps under no circumstances would you pass them for a role that another Black candidate is applying for? I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived…

>I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived racism with actual racism. No one think they have ever discriminated against someone based on ethnicity. Even Donald Trump sincerely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the least racist person who has ever walked this good earth. But ac…

It's a racial stereotype and one that becomes self-fulfilling. There were Asian interviewers, therefore I as Black candidate will be discriminated against. There were Black interviewers, therefore I will assume I will be discriminated against.

You're just re-enforcing Us vs Them mentality that many of us have worked very hard to abolish.

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