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Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

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Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#41

Post by kebman »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #38
kebman wrote: post #34

If you look to Bernie's wonderworld, Norway (where I'm from), all that is taken care of privately. However the credit and debt registry companies are obliged by law to inform customers when a check-up is done on them. It's quite painless, and it's a service completely paid for by the finance industry, instead of being a poorly run and corruption prone state owned and agency financed by tax money. The debt registry ca…

Why aren't private corporations corruption prone? They're the ones DOING the corrupting! But somehow we feel they're better than government? Every 'appropriately funded' govt service I've used has been miles away better than the equivalent private service. Schools, hospitals, research facilities, police, student loan management company etc etc

Oh, they are, of course, like anyone else. But they have directly paying clients to please, and thus they have a much more important reputation to keep. If any foul play is caught, they stand to lose business, and thus money, while political slights might only cause the odd head or two to roll. And so, barring the bad apple or two, it tends to happen less often as long as the conditions for competition are fair.

On the other hand, a state-owned agency is often very bureaucratic, and thus it has built-in deficiensies and resource hungry regulatives that slow things down to a crawl. All that does is to incentivice paying for speed, which would of course be corruption.

On top of that, private companies aren't subject to change every time Government changes, and leadership change within the private sector tend to be efficiency / profit centered, while Government change is much more complex, and often based on quaint special interests that need to be politically pleased. Or the bar is set higher for it to happen, because politically changing the policies of private companies would involves actual laws that need to be voted in, rather than departmentally set regulatives.

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#42

Post by kayaeb »

youeseh wrote: post #37
RandomInteger4 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically they're not trying to suppress minority voters?

It is a numbers game (no puns intended). Let's say we have 100k people that live in a few poor counties where not everyone has government ID and they can't afford to spend time / money to go very far. Now, if 40k of those people need an ID to vote, reducing the hours that the nearest DMV operates will reduce the number of people that get an ID. Now, you might say, "but why can't they just go to the DMV in the next co…

What are better suggestions to prevent voter fraud? We know from history that voting fraud is a thing, in the 1800s it was known that political parties would pay fresh immigrants to vote (like the scene in Upton Sinclaire's "The Jungle"), or to even kidnap people and force them into voting [1]. So we can't rely on good faith.

I'm under the impression that to vote you must register in a voting district, surely that registration requires something like a birth certificate or a SSN, which I believe is the only requirement for a government issued ID... Operating on the idea that the requirement for government IDs may in fact be a good faith measure to prevent voter fraud, would perhaps an optimal solution be to bring a web camera to that voting registration area and simultaneously issue IDs there?

To be honest, I thought it was a non-issue since my voter registration is also my draft registration, so I assume I provided some form of citizenship proof when I registered. It was a while ago though so I don't recall the details.

[1] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/election-fraud-in-the-...

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#43

Post by nappy »

sieabahlpark wrote: post #20
mc32 wrote: post #2

If they do this, it has to be like the FED. Absolutely independent from any political interference. Not allowed to sell data and be rigorous about user data. Also, find an alternative to SSNs for base ID for people. On the other hand, it must not transform into what the CCP is doing. It has to stay true to being a proxy for credit worthiness —that is all. No handicapping either or dings for "unapproved" ideas, behavi…

You know it absolutely would be used to target political opponents from both sides.

The performance of the IRS is a strong counterargument to this.

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#44

Post by toomuchtodo »

sieabahlpark wrote: post #20
mc32 wrote: post #2

If they do this, it has to be like the FED. Absolutely independent from any political interference. Not allowed to sell data and be rigorous about user data. Also, find an alternative to SSNs for base ID for people. On the other hand, it must not transform into what the CCP is doing. It has to stay true to being a proxy for credit worthiness —that is all. No handicapping either or dings for "unapproved" ideas, behavi…

You know it absolutely would be used to target political opponents from both sides.

When was the last time the OPM and it’s data corpus was weaponized politically (data breach incompetence aside)?

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#45

Post by gus_massa »

youeseh wrote: post #37
RandomInteger4 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically they're not trying to suppress minority voters?

It is a numbers game (no puns intended). Let's say we have 100k people that live in a few poor counties where not everyone has government ID and they can't afford to spend time / money to go very far. Now, if 40k of those people need an ID to vote, reducing the hours that the nearest DMV operates will reduce the number of people that get an ID. Now, you might say, "but why can't they just go to the DMV in the next co…

In Argentina everyone has a national identity card. It cost about US$5, and you can ask for an exception if you don't have the money. And I swear this is not the more organized and efficient country in the word.

To get one, you have to ask for a date about 2 or 3 weeks in advance, and you go to one of the official buildings. The process takes like 15 minutes and they send the ID to your home 2 or 3 weeks later.

Sometimes the government puts a truck with a mobile office in some parks. Sometimes you can get one also in some big shopping malls without a previous date. And if you wish, you can pay more to get the ID in the next day. Also, you can make your passport in the same office.

If we can, you can.

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#46

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

mighty_bander wrote: post #31

It's interesting seeing the American perspective on this. The perpetual mistrust of government would, I think, be warranted were that government not elected by the populace. As it is, I am a little confused why the same skepticism is not directed at the for-profit entities now operating the credit scoring system.

What government is elected by the people? A few high level people - legislators, governors, presidents, mayors. I don't get to vote on the director of the Department of Motor Vehicles, or the local Code Enforcement Officer, or the Chief of Police. Those are the more relevant officials, and they're shielded from responsibility for their actions by layers of bureaucracy.

If you want me to believe government is accountable, make all government positions subject to popular vote and recall.

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#47

Post by maehwasu »

mighty_bander wrote: post #31

It's interesting seeing the American perspective on this. The perpetual mistrust of government would, I think, be warranted were that government not elected by the populace. As it is, I am a little confused why the same skepticism is not directed at the for-profit entities now operating the credit scoring system.

The government is elected by about a quarter of the populace, and even the winning quarter is often dissatisfied at the lack of control it exerts over its representatives.

Democratic representation is one of the leakiest abstractions ever devised.

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#48

Post by Retric »

kayaeb wrote: post #42
youeseh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a numbers game (no puns intended). Let's say we have 100k people that live in a few poor counties where not everyone has government ID and they can't afford to spend time / money to go very far. Now, if 40k of those people need an ID to vote, reducing the hours that the nearest DMV operates will reduce the number of people that get an ID. Now, you might say, "but why can't they just go to the DMV in the next co…

What are better suggestions to prevent voter fraud? We know from history that voting fraud is a thing, in the 1800s it was known that political parties would pay fresh immigrants to vote (like the scene in Upton Sinclaire's "The Jungle"), or to even kidnap people and force them into voting [1]. So we can't rely on good faith. I'm under the impression that to vote you must register in a voting district, surely that re…

The common solution when little documentation exists is to apply ink at voting booths. Something that comes off in a few days, but otherwise bonds to the top layer of people’s skin. That’s plenty for one person one vote. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink

As to having non residents vote, vastly more eligible voters don’t vote than people ineligible to vote. Honestly, as much hoopla as this gets it’s clear from recent elections it’s a non issue. Look for actual examples of this happening and your coming up empty.

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#49

Post by propter_hoc »

nostromo wrote: post #28
propter_hoc wrote: post #6

Thanks, but I'd rather the government not collect all this sensitive, personal information. In fact, I'd rather nobody collect it. It's kind of shocking in the first place that our banks and lenders are allowed to release such personal information to a credit bureau without our opt-in. I'd rather Sanders focus on legislating a right to privacy, rather than for the government to take over a role that shouldn't exist.

> without our opt-in You do opt-in when you sign credit agreements and the like. Since all creditors require it your options are to opt-in to credit reporting or opt-out of borrowing.

Right, that's what I'm saying should be legislated to be optional. I don't think citizens should be forced to make that choice. Frankly, I think it might even be best to forbid a third party from collecting a borrower's personal information as a condition of a lender providing a personal financial product.

I will in advance disagree with the objection that this would make it impossible for the lending industry to operate. I have run a lending business before, and in the industry FICO score is much less valuable than a lot of other information available to lenders (demographic, income, assets). For asset-based lending (car loans, mortgages, etc), FICO is even more irrelevant compared to factors like loan-to-value.

Re: Sanders wants to replace credit reporting companies with public credit registry

#50

Post by bearjaws »

joegahona wrote: post #13

> Under this proposal, Americans would be able to receive credit scores for free I have never paid to see my credit score, so I'm not sure how this is novel? Also, are things not going well at Vox? 900px (height!) of ads at the top of the page along with Outbrain trash and numerous right-rail ads and inside-the-content ads (on desktop) do not give the impression of a thriving publication.

If you are using a "free" e.g. credit karma, Mint, credit monitoring service, you are paying via giving away your information, its not free.

You're the product being sold.

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