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Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

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Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#251

Post by CryptoPunk »

claudeganon wrote: post #34
rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

I think it has to be framed against the baseline of pervasive anti-union ideology in the US. When people have been inculcated all their lives with the idea that labor organizing is bad, they’re all just temporarily embarrassed corporate execs, it doesn’t take too much to push them back towards this baseline. Or at least enough to quash the union.

I would say that there is a pervasive anti-free-market ideology in the US. Otherwise there's no way the laws that blatantly violate people's contract rights in order to empower union action would be tolerated by society.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#252

Post by jkp56 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #42
dev_dull wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The painfully obvious answer is that the work is low skill. Why? Because the job market in the Bay Area is such that high skilled labor can easily and quickly find more gainful employment. It doesn’t make it better for them to earn less, and a union is one way to group high and low skill labor pool such as the whole can have a better quality of life.

If you’re talking about programming... the reason programmers (of a certain sort) are paid a lot in the Bay Area is not because they are vastly “higher” skilled than other people. The average chef in the Bay Area is WAY more skilled than all but the most skilled coders. There are two reasons why programmers (of a certain sort) make so much money: 1) It’s an area of speculation, how much revenue can such people produc…

Software, unlike food or hardware, has a unique property: it can be replicated for free. Chefs have influence only on the meal they prepare now, while a software dev makes a "meal prototype" that's instantly replicated into every restaurant on the planet. When an airline chef makes a mistake, some passengers of that flight have to spend extra 30 mins more in a restroom. When a Boeing software engineer makes a mistake, all airplanes inherit this mistake and start crashing. When a neurosurgeon makes a mistake, one patient dies, but when a software dev who writes the software for x-ray machines makes a mistake, millions of people get cancer.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#253

Post by [deleted] »

rapind wrote: post #51
chrisseaton wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think their angle is that it’s not in anyone’s favour to unionise.

It's hard to pinpoint where it originated but anti-union sentiment existed conversationally my entire life. The view being that union's are big inefficient bureaucracies of lazy people who get nothing done. It parallels the view of government I grew up with. Never really questioned where this view came from though, but my guess would be persistent long term marketing by interested parties. "Nudging" if you will. That…

[deleted]

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#254

Post by CryptoPunk »

anigbrowl wrote: post #237
rayiner wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given OP’s reference to anti-union ideology being “inculcated” I was thinking Of authoritative sources. When was the last time you heard an anti union screed from a politician? (Versus anti corporate screeds?)

Donald J. Trump‏ @realDonaldTrump I’ll never get the support of Dues Crazy union leadership, those people who rip-off their membership with ridiculously high dues, medical and other expenses while being paid a fortune. But the members love Trump. They look at our record economy, tax & reg cuts, military etc. WIN! 7:32 AM - 29 Apr 2019 inb4 'Trump isn't a politician'.

"But the members love Trump" makes the criticism for more specific than being anti-union.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#256

Post by cameronbrown »

stale2002 wrote: post #215
CameronBarre wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have to go into the office or do you work remote?

I live a couple blocks from the office, so I go in. There are a couple people on the team who work remote, though. Big 5 tech companies are pretty great.

> Big 5 tech companies are pretty great.

Out of curiosity - any downsides to your working conditions? You seem pretty happy about everything.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#257

Post by tokai »

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

Unions have been have been suppressed for over 150 years. At least they have stopped killing unionist.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#258

Post by jkp56 »

wind0w wrote: post #199
stjohnswarts wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement right there is racist as it assumes a general trait across all white men, not just the ones guilty of it. It's the same as saying all black men are bad fathers (because stereotype). Both are hideously racist statements.

Criticizing wealthy white tech people for exploiting their power and privilege to exclude others is not at all comparable for disparaging black fathers.

It's a futile excercise because these tech people aren't the decision makers. You're blaming a waiter for how the restaurant is running its business. Those who make decisions are the big VCs (Sequioa capital and the co).

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#259

Post by rocqua »

rtempaccount1 wrote: post #145
pcnix wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Indian developers that's above average pay, and HCL has a heavy Indian presence. Prices for developers outside of the US and Europe are actually quite low, and part of the reason is the low costs in other countries that let companies get away with paying less, and another part is that there's a lot of engineers available. Even if the average engineer is not as good, there's so many engineers in India that compani…

I'd say it's mainly just the US, from my experience (UK outside of london) developer salaries in Europe are much lower than the US. For one example https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Software_Developer/...

This is, in large part, because the cry of "fine I'll go work in silicon valley" doesn't work in Europe (because H1B visas are a bitch to get).

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#260

Post by jkp56 »

wind0w wrote: post #200
burntoutfire wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't any blanket (and negative) statement about any race racist?

Criticizing white people for upholding a racist system is not racist.

You could also critize red cars for upholding the high price tags on fast cars.
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