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Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

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Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#201

Post by anigbrowl »

matchagaucho wrote: post #86

USW is completely the wrong union for representing Tech Workers. This will not turn out well for the Workers. The USW membership dues will start at $100+ per month and go to strike funds, Lawyers, Representatives, and Stewards who have their own self-interests in mind. This is basically just paying protection money to thugs. EDIT: For those downvoting, perhaps you'd care to kindly suggest a better union for this caus…

I mean, it seems like your job to suggest a better one, but how about the (syndicalist) IWW?

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#202

Post by CameronBarre »

stale2002 wrote: post #195
tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a contract with the USPS IT department and let me tell you, it is absolutely awesome for their employees. They do about half the work we do in twice the amount of time, get paid more, have more holidays (2 weeks + every single federal holiday) and have pensions. Every worker there clocks in at 9, and clocks out at exactly 5, not a single minute past. If you want a meeting or them to get you something, it need…

> Every worker there clocks in at 9, and clocks out at exactly 5 LUL! Those are amateur numbers, buddy. I do 11-6 maybe , and work at a big 5 tech company making big 5 tech company salaries. And frankly, we aren't working a lot of the time during the day either. And yes, we have the "unlimited" vacation, which usually results in people taking about 4 weeks a year, on average. I think people underestimate how easy it…

Do you have to go into the office or do you work remote?

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#203

Post by privateSFacct »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #149
darawk wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose it this much." I think it's important to note here that "bad for management" doesn't necessarily mean "good for employees". It is possible that unions are bad for both, by gumming up the negotiating process, and insulating low performing employees at the expense of high perform…

On average unions work better for the most people. People on the upper end will not stop contributing or trying, people on the lower end don't matter much anyway. It's the middle that provides most of the advancement.

At least two other data points - I have a friend who worked in a govt agency - doing cool and important work - she left because of the unfirable lifers - while the stories are funny you can’t go to work and perform well in that situation.

In high school teacher X was notorious for giving no work and no s*its. He missed lots of his classes so always subs. We thought it was cool (usually easy A). He was there years but my senior year he must have done something way over the line because he was fired midday. Amazingly the gossip never figured out what he did (despite kids w parents on school board)

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#204

Post by jsty »

chillydawg wrote: post #183
tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a contract with the USPS IT department and let me tell you, it is absolutely awesome for their employees. They do about half the work we do in twice the amount of time, get paid more, have more holidays (2 weeks + every single federal holiday) and have pensions. Every worker there clocks in at 9, and clocks out at exactly 5, not a single minute past. If you want a meeting or them to get you something, it need…

Those conditions would actually be illegally poor in the UK for a full time employee. Minimum paid holiday is 22 + 8 days (8 are the public holidays) and everyone must have an employer matched contribution pension of at least 2% of gross salary. Hours are not regulated here but generally 8 per day.

> Hours are not regulated here but generally 8 per day

Whilst a lot of employers will have you opt out of the working time directive as part of an employment contract, you can opt back in at any time, limiting your max hours to 48 a week on average:

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/weekly-maxim...

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#205

Post by stale2002 »

puzzledobserver wrote: post #129
oh_sigh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with unions if they are voluntary, but not if I'm forced to join, forced to strike, forced to pay dues even if I'm not involved, and forced to not seek employment at a place under strike through threats of violence.

Just to clarify, are you saying, "I would like the collective to bargain on my behalf, but I just don't want to be part of that collective"? Isn't mandatory membership a simple corollary of unionization efforts?

> I would like the collective to bargain on my behalf

No, What I would like is that other people are free to collectively bargain on their own behalf, and their own behalf alone, and I am free to bargain individually for myself, without their "help" or obligations.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#206

Post by stale2002 »

arglebarnacle wrote: post #60
coupdetaco wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the unions are composed of reprehensible bigots who support the Vietnam war and are bad on race

The unions are democratic institutions that represent the self-organization of working people. If the current leadership of a union is bad (and in many cases it is) it should be campaigned against, voted out, and replaced. Giving up on the idea of a union because you don't like who's been elected to run it is self-defeating.

Ok, now what if that is not possible, and the rest of the workers have extremely bad positions, and it is not possible to convince them to change their mind?

Do you understand now why decentralization of power can have its uses?

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#207

Post by youdontknowtho »

scarejunba wrote: post #165
geofft wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. That doesn't seem right to me? http://web.mta.info/news/pdf/MTA-2019-Prelim-Budget-July-Fin... says the MTA budget is $16.6B, of which $8.7B is to NYCT (subway + bus + Staten Island Railroad). http://content.tfl.gov.uk/transport-for-london-budget-2018-1... says the TfL budget is £9.8B (about $12.2B), of which the Underground alone has a budget of £2.5B (about $3.1B), buses are almost as much, and then there's the…

Ever since The Most Expensive Mile of Subway Track in the World, the view of NYC's unions isn't really that positive. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyre...

Trillions of dollars change hands every day in New York. How much should the infrastructure for a place like that cost?

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#208

Post by guerrilla »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #167
guerrilla wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find this an odd thing to say... as if corporations and states have less corruption...

> I always find this an odd thing to say... as if corporations and states have less corruption... If there are two corrupt things, why add a third one to increase the misery?

Are you asking for the purpose of a labor union and insinuating that all labor unions are corrupt?

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#209

Post by esoterica »

kazen44 wrote: post #159
geofft wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opponents? My political opponents are actual, non-embarrassed millionaires and billionaires from families of millionaires and billionaires. My political allies are temporarily embarrassed millionaires, from the folks accepting below-market salaries to work at a potential unicorn to the folks buying literal lotto tickets at the corner store. A few of them are no longer temporarily embarrassed, having joined the right…

is this not just survivorship bias? What about the countless of people who did not make it into a successful startup, or all those people who bought lottery tickets without winning anything? becoming a millionaire is statistically highly unlikely, and why would such an unlikely event warrant anti-union sentiment?

There are 14 million millionaire households in the US, about 11% of all households. You are more likely to be part of a millionaire household than be left handed. A million dollars is not a lot of money in 2019.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#210

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

guerrilla wrote: post #208
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always find this an odd thing to say... as if corporations and states have less corruption... If there are two corrupt things, why add a third one to increase the misery?

Are you asking for the purpose of a labor union and insinuating that all labor unions are corrupt?

I lived in the Michigan for a couple of decades and observed the behavior of the Teamsters and UAW firsthand so insinuation is not even necessary.
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