Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

m.pghcitypaper.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 448 posts

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#91

Post by oh_sigh »

claudeganon wrote: post #34
rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

I think it has to be framed against the baseline of pervasive anti-union ideology in the US. When people have been inculcated all their lives with the idea that labor organizing is bad, they’re all just temporarily embarrassed corporate execs, it doesn’t take too much to push them back towards this baseline. Or at least enough to quash the union.

I'm fine with unions if they are voluntary, but not if I'm forced to join, forced to strike, forced to pay dues even if I'm not involved, and forced to not seek employment at a place under strike through threats of violence.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#92

Post by einpoklum »

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

Intimidation doesn't work by changing someone's rational opinion... it's enough for management to have employees afraid of unionization, even if they think it would probably help them. Their mind will come round to rationalizing the action-out-of-fear.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#93

Post by skwirl »

dev_dull wrote: post #14
tyingq wrote: post #4

"HCL employee and union organizer Ben Gwin says HCL workers make between $30,000-60,000 a year, and it varies widely." That's really low. I wonder what kind of work they do for Google.

The painfully obvious answer is that the work is low skill. Why? Because the job market in the Bay Area is such that high skilled labor can easily and quickly find more gainful employment. It doesn’t make it better for them to earn less, and a union is one way to group high and low skill labor pool such as the whole can have a better quality of life.

>It doesn’t make it better for them to earn less, and a union is one way to group high and low skill labor pool such as the whole can have a better quality of life.

It is definitely better for some workers to make more than other workers. Is this really part of the argument in favor of unions? I always thought this was an anti-union straw man argument.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#94

Post by parineum »

guerrilla wrote: post #67
toomuchtodo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should be both , with a careful eye towards aggressive governance and transparency of your union. No different than if you have equity ownership in a startup, the only difference is that you’re selling your time collectively instead of a product. Unions are just corporations for labor sales. If you don’t like your management, replace them with your vote.

> Unions are just corporations for labor. Not necessarily, some are democratic, like some in Sweden. The IWW is an example of an alternative to the centralized unions [1]. 1. https://www.iww.org/about/official/OBU

Corporations are democratic too. Board meetings are all about voting.

Emoloyees aren't part of the corporation any more than the widgets they make are.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#95

Post by oh_sigh »

viburnum wrote: post #72
telaelit wrote: post #37

We should all unionize IMHO

Nordic social democracy isn’t magic, it’s just what you get when most workers are in a union.

Congo has about the same population as Norway. I wonder if you'd get the same results if most people were unionized there.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#96

Post by anigbrowl »

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

Well, it's like looking at marketing/advertising and thinking ' nobody could fall for that, and certainly not me', but if it wasn't so effective firms wouldn't keep paying for it.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#97

Post by geofft »

parineum wrote: post #83
geofft wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opponents? My political opponents are actual, non-embarrassed millionaires and billionaires from families of millionaires and billionaires. My political allies are temporarily embarrassed millionaires, from the folks accepting below-market salaries to work at a potential unicorn to the folks buying literal lotto tickets at the corner store. A few of them are no longer temporarily embarrassed, having joined the right…

It sounds like you're counting your opponents as politicians and allies as the people whom you personally associate with politically. If you were referring to only politicians, they're basically all millionaires.

That seems like a decent definition, if oversimplified. What's wrong with it?

(And I think you'll find that I disproportionately support the non-millionare politicians.)

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#98

Post by brightball »

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

They are always in response to ham handed pro union efforts.

I live in SC and the volume of pro union propaganda that gets put out every time there’s an upcoming vote for Boeing is mind blowing. It’s not something you see often around here so when it suddenly appears it’s very out of place and noticeable.

It’s a vote. People are going to campaign for their interests.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#99

Post by guerrilla »

parineum wrote: post #94
guerrilla wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions are just corporations for labor. Not necessarily, some are democratic, like some in Sweden. The IWW is an example of an alternative to the centralized unions [1]. 1. https://www.iww.org/about/official/OBU

Corporations are democratic too. Board meetings are all about voting. Emoloyees aren't part of the corporation any more than the widgets they make are.

> Emoloyees aren't part of the corporation any more than the widgets they make are.

Which is why they're not democratic, opposed to say cooperatives.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#100

Post by claudeganon »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #76
claudeganon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you square those two. Could you elaborate? Any less durable form of organizing seems likely to have its work undone by the very well-organized and durable cadre of owners/management

Many professions that tend to be highly individualistic and require complex mastery have historically been represented by a Guild. While Guilds these days are sometimes a specialized form of union, the distinctions are often significant. A couple examples that come to mind are the American Bar Association, the American Medical Association, the Screen Actors Guild, and the Writers Guild of America.

Well, at least in the case of SAG and the WGA, those are essentially just white-collar unions. Neither of those groups would describe themselves as pro-organizing, but opposed to unions.
Post reply on HN