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Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

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Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#131
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which begs the question.. why not? They would sell incredibly well. Things like this continue to make me question how committed these legacy automakers truly are in regarding to making and selling EVs.

Possibly they're constrained by battery supply, or maybe they don't think they can ramp up production fast enough to supply all markets at once. We'll know they're really committed when they stop making gas/diesel cars (which they've said they're planning to do eventually).

Of course they are constrained by battery supply as a primary reason. The second reason is EVERY SINGLE EV hurts their dealers, because the maintenance is so much less. No spark plugs, mufflers, less use of brakes because of regen, no tune ups. They can still go wrong but so much is not needed in evs. Dealers make most of their profits from maintenance, and thus - they don't want them.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#132
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was skeptical that I’d like the car. Overall, it’s well thought out. There is one physical button I still want and that’s for the windshield wipers. The car wash triggers them (maybe a GPS fence around car washes to disable?? One which is only enabled when the local weather says it isn’t currently raining) and the non-touch free car washes will damage them if they’re operating. So, I keep the wipers on manual. The…

Or: if in neutral, then don't ever turn on the wipers. Better than hoping you geocoded every car wash on the planet.

That would work too. I do suspect the built in map has the location of car washes. Could be crowdsourced by looking for common locations where people put their cars into neutral.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#133

> The central focus is a new 10-inch touchscreen that sits in the middle of the ID.3’s dashboard. But VW has also opted to rely on touch-sensitive buttons throughout the cabin. In fact, the only things that are controlled through physical buttons, VW says, are the windows and the hazard lights. I don't understand why big touch screens in cars are seen as a step forward. To me, they raise safety issues, and they lack…

The whole debate of screen vs buttons in cars reminds me of the early days of smart phones "surely being one large screen is worse, I like my buttons!".

The whole point of Tesla's infotainment is to not be touching or changing anything while driving, its all configured based on who unlocked the car.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#134
post #19

I'm really excited for more viable electric vehicles. But, the claim that this is the first car for the masses when it's simply 2-3k (~33k to ~35k in USD) cheaper than a Tesla model 3 is discouraging. That said, I do understand that the total cost of ownership does catch up if you keep the car long enough. I would just love to see something in the 20s, or even lower. (Further, I'm very sympathetic to the argument tha…

Be careful when comparing EU prices to US prices: EU prices always include sales tax (varies by country, but 20% in France and 19% in Germany), while US prices never include them. Assuming 10% tariffs and 20% sales taxes, that bumps the $35,000 Tesla to $46,200, or about 42,000 EUR. Indeed the cheapest Model 3 that I could find in France costs 42,600 EUR. If the Volkswagen ID.3 comes in somewhere between 26,000 EUR a…

America is going to charge 20% to import the ID.3, unless they are making it here in the states, which I highly doubt.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#135
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably more than a "few" I think that you will be looking at 5-7 for the cars to fall to under a third of new value. Although that depends on your definition of "a few"* I guess. * https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/05/how-much-is-a-few...

Used Nissan Leaves seem to fall off a cliff. 2016 ones are already visible on ebay for under £10k.

Not having thermal management on the batteries does not work for an EV.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#136
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lower air resistance gives longer range. The Tesla Model S has spoked aluminum rims in black. For some reason, nobody customizes them.

Regenerative breaking also means less heat in the breaks I guess, so less need for cooling. Not sure how much that matters tho.

Motors integrated into the wheel might become a thing as well.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#137
VW says the base version of the ID.3 will only charge at up to 50kW, and owners who want to charge faster (up to 100kW) will have to pay extra

This is an unfortunate decision. Charging EVs is a collective-action problem. Selling cars that have at least double the charging time at capable public chargers contributes to that collective-action problem. VW could have set a relatively quick lower boundary on charging speed, perhaps by raising the price of the higher-version models to subsidize the price of a 100kW base model.

The problem is worse for this class of car, which is billed as long-range and thus is more likely to have the car's occupants (and other queued cars) waiting for a mid-journey charge to complete, versus a short-range car where owners are more likely to charge overnight or during a work shift.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#138
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The base model has a higher range per dollar than an SR+ by a comfortable margin. Abysmal seems like a strong word...? It might not be as fast or sexy as a Tesla, but cars like this will be the bread and butter of the EV transition. 30k EUR - 19% VAT = ~$27,750 USD, or $135 per WLTP mile. SR+ is $38,990 with a range of 254, or $153 per WLTP mile.

I think if you’re going to extrapolate a fictional ID.3 by backing out the VAT, the least you could do is compare against an SR- at $35,000 to get $137. Or alternatively the LR at 348mi WLTP range (+12.25%) for $47,990 = $138. Of course range per dollar is a funny metric because it’s like saying it’s the only thing you are paying for.

Removing the VAT is absolutely the right way to make the comparison. I didn't use EU prices for the Model 3 so as to not penalize it for tariffs and shipping. I honestly can't believe you're pushing back on that.

The specs don't match up to a Model 3, but it's a much cheaper car. If they were the same price, I'd understand your distaste.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#139
post #3

European here, trying to actually buy the thing. You can't. The first reservations will be fulfilled in the middle of 2020, but those will only be the mid-sized battery versions. If you want the version with a larger battery, there is no firm ship date, but it is expected in 2021. What I find somewhat amusing is that for the past months we've been bombarded by a huge marketing campaign advertising a car that doesn't…

"huge marketing campaign advertising a car that doesn't exist" Perhaps they are trying to gauge the likely success of the car before some final production decisions are made. You do have to wonder how Tesla is going to survive the first surge of practical mass-market electric cars. They definitely are riding some sort of tiger while trying to build out marketshare, technology, infrastructure. My money is on Toyota bu…

Toyota and BMW both are dragging their heels with EVs and are mostly focusing on hybrids and hydrogen. IMHO both are a dead end and an expensive mistake.

Battery prices and range are on track to improve for the foreseeable future and most other manufacturers are basically preparing to massively increase production of the dozens of EVs they announced in the next few years. There are very few manufacturers left that are not fully committed to EVs at this point. Toyota, Mazda, BMW, Fiat, and a few others basically.

BMW already is signalling they expect issues with market share, growth, profit etc. and just appointed a new CEO to fix this. In other words, they are late to this game, they know it, and are now acting to fix this. I know less about Toyota but they seem to be very stubbornly ignoring battery EVs so far. IMHO that signals long term trouble for them as well. Unless they find a way to catch up in a hurry. Either way, they are late and the rest of the industry is not waiting for them. IMHO Nissan and Honda, are in much better shape.

For most manufacturers the key game the next ten years is going to be securing availability of low cost batteries with decent range while balancing that cost with the absolute massive cost of dismantling their legacy manufacturing and supply industry. I expect layoffs directly related to that in Germany may affect tens of thousands or possibly hundreds of thousands of jobs across the thousands of companies that make up the car industry and their suppliers over the next decade. BMW just announced layoffs for 6000 in Germany. My guess is that won't be the last time.

Tesla is where they are in the market right now because they decided years ago to produce battery packs in house and recently to also start producing their own battery cells. That gives them a cost and technical advantage. They have no legacy business and every penny that comes in is invested in more production capacity, lowering cost, and improving technology.

VW is investing tens of billions to catch up in the next few years. IMHO this is exactly the right thing to do for them and I think Dieselgate helped speed up the decision making. The ID.3 is an important milestone for them and when they start shipping this in volume in a few years, it will no doubt affect the rest of the industry. They are already talking about Id.4 and my guess is they are not stopping there. I think there's a good chance they might wipe out or flat out absorb a few of their competitors in the process. BMW for example. Meanwhile Tesla has at least five years and probably closer to ten years where they are basically enjoying volume and cost advantages essentially unchallenged. I'd be surprised if they don't establish themselves as one of the top car manufacturers during that time.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#140
post #3

European here, trying to actually buy the thing. You can't. The first reservations will be fulfilled in the middle of 2020, but those will only be the mid-sized battery versions. If you want the version with a larger battery, there is no firm ship date, but it is expected in 2021. What I find somewhat amusing is that for the past months we've been bombarded by a huge marketing campaign advertising a car that doesn't…

Exactly what Tesla did when it marketed the 3. Wait list. Have friends that still waiting.

Perfectly normal, factories for EVs have to be built from ground up or adapted. This takes time. In the meantime, why not win hearts and minds?

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