Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 125 posts

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#101

Post by sneak »

Merrill wrote: post #7

Subpoenas have been used frequently for decades to request "records kept in the ordinary course of business". The only thing different in this case seems to be that there is a perpetual gag order. But if the local prosecutor subpoenas your phone records because you are being investigated for bribing an athletic coach at a university, I don't think the phone company will tell you about it.

The major thing that is different is that no judge or court is involved - these are issued by the requesting organization directly with no oversight.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#102

Post by hammock »

Merrill wrote: post #95
hammock wrote: post #9

NSLs are not subpoenas. They are "administrative subpoenas," the difference being that they are not issued by a court and have no review or oversight by any judge or court officer. They are about as much a subpoena, as the FISA "court" is a court of law.

>"In most instances, a subpoena can be issued and signed by an attorney on behalf of a court in which the attorney is authorized to practice law. If the subpoena is for a high-level government official (such as the Governor, or agency head), then it must be signed by an administrative law judge. In some cases, a non-lawyer may issue a subpoena if acting on his or her own behalf (known as pro se representation)." http…

You missed the point. Your citation refers to a traditional subpoena, which I was saying is distinct from these "subpoenas." NSLs are not issued by prosecuting attorneys.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#103

Post by ryacko »

Porthos9K wrote: post #100
wallace_f wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No this is right. If left-, right-politics have taught me anything, it is that your personal business, emails, and bedroom behavior are the concern of the federal government and its electorate--at least the 50% that agree with it.

Hoover was running his little fiefdom with minimal oversight under both Democratic and Republican administrations. Both sides used him, and doubtless both sides feared the dirt he had on them and what he might reveal if called to account by Congress. Kompromat might be a foreign word, but it's hardly a foreign concept.

You’re kidding right? This is the history of the word blackmail:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/blackmail#etymonline_v_13560

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#104

Post by [deleted] »

wallace_f wrote: post #99
chrischen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't assume that Hoover would have been against increasing the power available to himself and his agency.

No this is right. If left-, right-politics have taught me anything, it is that your personal business, emails, and bedroom behavior are the concern of the federal government and its electorate--at least the 50% that agree with it.

[deleted]

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#105

Post by simplecomplex »

guelo wrote: post #63
RonaldSchleifer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your reporting on this, even if it just seems to chronicle the ever accelerating deconstruction of the Constitution. Even if American Constitutionalists were able to walk back these types of clear abuses on the social compact that keeps peace by two steps, it will only be without realizing that five steps were taken towards the progress of disassembling the Constitution. An old, irrelevant, outdated doc…

Not sure what you're talking about, the courts have ruled that NSLs are constitutional.

The Supreme Court has been a treasonous organization since Wickard v Filburn (8 of 9 justices then of course appointed by Roosevelt)

NSLs are unconstitutional.

> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#106

Post by ryacko »

jenvalentino wrote: post #15

Hi. I'm the reporter on this story. Thanks for discussing it! I thought it might be helpful for me to make a couple points. First, national security letters have been around, AND controversial, for years now. A number of tech companies have fought the gag orders. The news here is really that we are seeing for the first time which other specific companies get a lot of these — especially banks, credit agencies and so f…

As a suggestion for following articles on the subject, you could explore why there is no remedy for this apparent loss of privacy.

I personally think that the Bill of Rights should have been amended once tabulating machines were used for the 1890 census, without which, it would have taken the whole decade to count.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#109

Post by Merrill »

hammock wrote: post #102
Merrill wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"In most instances, a subpoena can be issued and signed by an attorney on behalf of a court in which the attorney is authorized to practice law. If the subpoena is for a high-level government official (such as the Governor, or agency head), then it must be signed by an administrative law judge. In some cases, a non-lawyer may issue a subpoena if acting on his or her own behalf (known as pro se representation)." http…

You missed the point. Your citation refers to a traditional subpoena, which I was saying is distinct from these "subpoenas." NSLs are not issued by prosecuting attorneys.

>However, the most commonly used type of NSL can be issued directly by the FBI Director, an Assistant Director, and also by all FBI Special Agents in Charge, who are commanding officers stationed across the country at FBI field offices.

https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters/faq#3

Most of these, and certainly the Director, are also attorneys. At least James Comey was. Plus they have FBI staff attorneys to consult with. Practically speaking, how does this differ from the local prosecutor issuing a subpoena? The local country prosecutor is essentially part of law enforcement and reports up to the AG in the executive branch of government. The local county prosecutor has dozens of detectives working for her.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#110

Post by wallace_f »

Porthos9K wrote: post #100
wallace_f wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No this is right. If left-, right-politics have taught me anything, it is that your personal business, emails, and bedroom behavior are the concern of the federal government and its electorate--at least the 50% that agree with it.

Hoover was running his little fiefdom with minimal oversight under both Democratic and Republican administrations. Both sides used him, and doubtless both sides feared the dirt he had on them and what he might reveal if called to account by Congress. Kompromat might be a foreign word, but it's hardly a foreign concept.

Yea and my comment's derision is inclusive of both halves of the 2-party system.
Post reply on HN