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Birds Are Vanishing from North America

nytimes.com

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Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#311

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

anigbrowl wrote: post #102
ff317 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 - I think the kind of marketing and messaging that makes environmentalism all about saving "the planet" and "the animals" and "the natural environment" really doesn't serve us well. A better strategic approach would be to highlight (with the right crafty messaging) that a very tiny statistical slice of earth's historical states and potential future states are any good at supporting large human populations comforta…

Your approach will fail for the same reason than an ethical environmental appeal does. Enough humans who feel and fear their impending mortality are selfish and vindictive enough to obstruct change because they want to conserve whatever material comforts they have now and do not care about what happens to other people after they're dead. I would go so far as to say that some of them take a perverse pleasure in the id…

>Enough humans who feel and fear their impending mortality are selfish and vindictive enough to obstruct change because they want to conserve whatever material comforts they have now and do not care about what happens to other people after they're dead.

Sent from my iPhone

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#312

Post by yqx »

refurb wrote: post #162
amatecha wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beaver dams don't kill off the ecosystem. Tons of other life forms make use of the newly-flooded area. I've personally watched herons perch upon the dam to catch the fish that are now swimming through the now-deeper waterway, for example.

Same thing when humans build dams, right? We're creating new ecosystems.

The point that's missing from this discussion is that beavers have been building dams for an eternity because it's part of their natural behaviour. The ecosystem has had ample time to adapt to it. An ecosystem is a delicate balance between systems that results from these systems co-evolving in the same environment for millions of years. The systems (plants animals seasonal change, climate) are all highly fine tuned to each other. Yes, this balance is sometimes abruptly disturbed under "natural" circumstances, but this is rare. What humans are doing in the last couple hundreds of years involves much more sudden changes to which eco systems have no time to adapt. It's the suddenness of the changes what's unnatural about it. Whether you call it natural or not is besides the point though. The point is that human dam building is a phenomenon very different from beaver dam building because, besides scale and impact, it did not gradually co-evolve with an eco system, but is an abrupt and disruptive change.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#313

Post by majos »

PeterStuer wrote: post #260
JackRabbitSlim wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. John Forbs Nash did the math 40 years ago. Nothing changes until its profitable to change and it will only be profitable to change when its already to late.

It is far worse than that. Market capitalism can not move us from local maxima even when we know far higher maxima exist.

What? R+D investment is still a real thing, even if investors have shorter time horizons than they used to. There are still firms sacrificing short term gains for long term ones.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#314

Post by imglorp »

fromthestart wrote: post #119
Isinlor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not sure if Bayer is such a good name either. Bayer was part of conglomerate producing Zyklon B used by Germans to kill millions of people.

Bayer knowingly sold antihemopheliac factor contaminated with HIV. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24785997/

That should be bigger news. But as usual, quiet settlement and marginalized victims. 20,000 victims and a 300 million payout.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bayer-admits-it-paid-millions-i...

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#315

Post by glup »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #35

Since I almost never see it mentioned in any threads related to this subject, am I thrilled that the main article actually references Silent Spring. I remember growing up that people thought that we had somehow managed to avoid the future it portrayed, but no, we have not. Another generation and the purveyors of death are back selling the cure for other species some people haven't learned to live in balance with.

>> I remember growing up that people thought that we had somehow managed to avoid the future it portrayed, but no, we have not.

I read this comment re: Silent Spring on Thursday and it kept coming to mind hearing everything about the climate strikes Friday. I think this is profoundly, frighteningly correct.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#316

Post by Kaiyou »

bsmitty5000 wrote: post #2

This article doesn't mention the declining insect population at all but I would think it's clear that a quickly declining food source would be a major cause of population decline. I wonder if there's a similar decline in other animals that rely on insects, eg bats. Although, interestingly, the article does mention neonicotinoids as a direct reason for the decline in population. It's hard to imagine humans taking the…

> the planet recovers on its own.

Like all those other planets without us, like Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Uranus,...

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#317

Post by joncrane »

Isinlor wrote: post #29
imglorp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bought by Bayer, that name will be gone soon because of the well earned negative perceptions.

Well, not sure if Bayer is such a good name either. Bayer was part of conglomerate producing Zyklon B used by Germans to kill millions of people.

Hugo Boss used to make Nazi uniforms and Volkswagen was literally founded by Nazis.

I think we need to reference more recent crimes if we want to write off entire companies.

What would be interesting is to determine what's within range and what isn't. I'll go out on a limb and say WW2 is beyond that horizon.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#319

Post by bognition »

Kaiyou wrote: post #316
bsmitty5000 wrote: post #2

This article doesn't mention the declining insect population at all but I would think it's clear that a quickly declining food source would be a major cause of population decline. I wonder if there's a similar decline in other animals that rely on insects, eg bats. Although, interestingly, the article does mention neonicotinoids as a direct reason for the decline in population. It's hard to imagine humans taking the…

> the planet recovers on its own. Like all those other planets without us, like Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Uranus,...

As far as we know those planets are devoid of life. Whereas the earth has been teaming with life for billions of years. During that time the earth has gone through thousands of extinction events with 6 mass extinctions (when upwards of 90% of all life went extinct).

Our success (humans/mammals) is the result of one of those extinctions. So yeah, life has a strong foot hold on earth and it will continue to do so long after we're gone.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#320

Post by DFHippie »

saagarjha wrote: post #269
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they also were the first to market Heroine, that hasn't really stopped sales of asprin.

(Heroin.)

Yes, the marketing of heroines preceded them and is generally harmless (protests against "Wonder Woman" notwithstanding).
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