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Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

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Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#61

Post by jlpom »

aug_aug wrote: post #9

Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds…

If you have ways to eliminate it with time, the DEET is probably long gone from you're organism and that's what matter if you're fine.

On sligthly unrelated and personal note, I made the mistake to pass an MRI with gadolinium based contrast (refuse it if you have choice!) months ago and the lasting effects are still a huge toll on my health (difficulties to think, talk and sleep, skin and paint raidiness, cardiac and sexual (erectile and nearly no spermatogenese, maybe linked to thyroïd?) issues. I hope this isn't permanent but there is no improvement in sigth, and no explaination for why it wasn't filtered (creatinine level from a blood test months after the incident was on the lower end but still in the normals brackets) that could accord me support from a nephrologist or other specialist to get rid of the deposits.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#62

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

zug_zug wrote: post #2

tl; dr: - Neurological studies show actual damage to the same region of the brain for these diplomats - Pesticides (organophosphates) are put out as a candidate theory. - Research shows people whose residences were sprayed MORE with pesticide had greater symptoms, adding strong evidence - Mass Hysteria is dismissed as a theory, as the group of people experiencing it is highly vetted and because the diagnosis is only…

That... seems rather convincing? A rather impressive House, MD cosplay, certainly.

I distinctly remember the internet telling me thousand-fold of their absolute confidence that this was mass hysteria, usually with the pose of a really exciting contrarian theory and some blanket dismissal of "so-called experts" and the "mainstream media's" unwillingness to present that idea with similar conviction.

The second-ranking theory was, IIRC, a conspiracy by the US to create the pretext to invade Cuba. I guess the plans changed.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#63

Post by CamperBob2 »

refurb wrote: post #43
selectodude wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it’s commonly combined with carbamate which is.

Carbamate is an insecticide. In what insect repellent products is it combined with DEET? And in terms of cholinesterase inhibition, there was a 2009 paper that said it was. Digging into it, it was when applied in vitro at a concentration of 20uM, which you’d need to drink hundreds of milliliters to achieve.

Digging into it, it was when applied in vitro at a concentration of 20uM, which you’d need to drink hundreds of milliliters to achieve.

Which apparently is a thing that is done, going by the bizarre link in geomark's post above.

People are weird.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#64

Post by joecool1029 »

GhettoMaestro wrote: post #29
skim_milk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my father was a child, he would bike behind the trucks that sprayed DDT all over the neighborhood because the DDT mist kept him cool. I hope you'll be fine, because people have done much worse!

Omg I hope your dad is alright?

As scary sounding as the anecdote was, DDT is known for relatively low human (and mammal) toxicity. They did absolutely insane human studies with it in the 1950's, and dosages of up to 380mg/kg were tolerable. There was also no evidence that it produced cancer at commonly exposed dosages: http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicro... < some more info here.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#65

Post by jlpom »

I find this hypothesis slithly more plausible than a pulsed radiofrequency/microwaves attack where the way this could alter white matter seems unclear, but especially given a precedent [0] both are good candidates.

This is compatible in my view to a russian interference in the midst of warming relations between Cuba and the US/Canada. The diplomats seems ro be the only members of the embassy to be affected and the russians know how to not leave their footprint when they don't want to (e.g. not Novitchok or Polonium).

[0] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Signal

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#67

Post by onetimemanytime »

aug_aug wrote: post #9

Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds…

same thing happened to one with roundup, cigs got wet and I guess burned roundup and lungs don't go together. Coma and all

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#68

Post by emerongi »

therein wrote: post #50
t1lthesky wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha I remember doing the same thing when I was ~6 years old in South Korea. There would be these trucks that went around spraying mosquito killing fog in the apartment complexes and all the little kids from the neighborhood would run behind them. Well now I'm 30 and so far things seem to be ok! Fingers crossed

Yup, this has been my experience growing up outside of the US. Watching this video made me facepalm really hard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2NmuQW8cjE

The description on that video is hilarious.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#69

Post by o-__-o »

t1lthesky wrote: post #36
skim_milk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my father was a child, he would bike behind the trucks that sprayed DDT all over the neighborhood because the DDT mist kept him cool. I hope you'll be fine, because people have done much worse!

Ha I remember doing the same thing when I was ~6 years old in South Korea. There would be these trucks that went around spraying mosquito killing fog in the apartment complexes and all the little kids from the neighborhood would run behind them. Well now I'm 30 and so far things seem to be ok! Fingers crossed

Meanwhile I’m out walking my dog and one of these trucks turns the corner. I immediately turn and run, it’s always futile.. the truck passes me and I’m left standing there holding my shirt over my face. Doesn’t matter; inhaled DEET.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#70

Post by aug_aug »

seamyb88 wrote: post #55
aug_aug wrote: post #9

Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds…

This sounds like a politician's cannabis story.

Hah, I could regale you with cannabis stories all day too, during this incident though, tobacco only. Everyone says "suuuuuree" it was tobacco about 3 min. in every time I tell the story.
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