Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
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Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#2tl; dr:
- Neurological studies show actual damage to the same region of the brain for these diplomats
- Pesticides (organophosphates) are put out as a candidate theory.
- Research shows people whose residences were sprayed MORE with pesticide had greater symptoms, adding strong evidence
- Mass Hysteria is dismissed as a theory, as the group of people experiencing it is highly vetted and because the diagnosis is only applicable when no underlying cause is present. In this case, the actual measurement of the brain show there is damage, ruling out the theory.
Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#3tl; dr: - Neurological studies show actual damage to the same region of the brain for these diplomats - Pesticides (organophosphates) are put out as a candidate theory. - Research shows people whose residences were sprayed MORE with pesticide had greater symptoms, adding strong evidence - Mass Hysteria is dismissed as a theory, as the group of people experiencing it is highly vetted and because the diagnosis is only…
> The embassies actively sprayed in offices, as well as inside and outside diplomatic residences — sometimes five times more frequently than usual. Many times, spraying operations were carried out every two weeks, according to embassy records.
This suggests that in fact it was the US government (following the host government's lead) that introduced the toxin into their environment. If so, it seems like the Cubans may be owed an apology.
But did the embassy use stronger concentration than Cuba? Or a different agent? Are any local Havanans experiencing these symptoms?
Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#4(Cuban here.) I find this result very interesting, really, as we're exposed to these chemicals in varying degrees and frequency. I personally live in a epidemiological controlled/safe (-ish) area of Havana, so my exposure is very limited. However, I do know that some other areas are way more affected by vectors since they are less urbanized and with more population density.
In those cases the authorities are more aggressive in the use of mass fumigation, particularly during the summer and autumn; but still I don't think that such elevated frequency produces the effects shown in the article, for the general population, that is.
It is true that we're particularly vulnerable to zika, chikungunya, yellow fever, and dengue fever (especially in 2016); and what I can easily imagine (and conjecture) is that diplomatic personnel were overly (and rightly) concerned, and liberally applied these products with more zeal than necessary. Thus, increased their exposition to these chemicals.
Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#5tl; dr: - Neurological studies show actual damage to the same region of the brain for these diplomats - Pesticides (organophosphates) are put out as a candidate theory. - Research shows people whose residences were sprayed MORE with pesticide had greater symptoms, adding strong evidence - Mass Hysteria is dismissed as a theory, as the group of people experiencing it is highly vetted and because the diagnosis is only…
> The embassies actively sprayed in offices, as well as inside and outside diplomatic residences — sometimes five times more frequently than usual. Many times, spraying operations were carried out every two weeks, according to embassy records. This suggests that in fact it was the US government (following the host government's lead) that introduced the toxin into their environment. If so, it seems like the Cubans may…
The article answers this
Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#6Maybe we would use less pesticides if we just called them neurotoxins.
Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#7Maybe we would use less pesticides if we just called them neurotoxins.
Fun story... VX nerve agent was discovered and originally introduced as a pesticide.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)
Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The embassies actively sprayed in offices, as well as inside and outside diplomatic residences — sometimes five times more frequently than usual. Many times, spraying operations were carried out every two weeks, according to embassy records. This suggests that in fact it was the US government (following the host government's lead) that introduced the toxin into their environment. If so, it seems like the Cubans may…
The article answers this
Specifically this section I suppose:
> The symptoms experienced by the victims — headaches, hearing loss, cognitive problems, loss of balance, etc. — are frequently found in the general population, these scientists argued, and can be attributed to many causes.
Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#9Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds!!?" and thought I was losing my mind.
I put it all together weeks later when I remembered the DEET spill from several months earlier. Pesticides/insecticides, in my experience at least, can induce those symptoms, lol - maybe the mosquito spraying was a little heavy by the hotel? And now I hope I don't have brain damage, thanks internet.
Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests
#10Maybe we would use less pesticides if we just called them neurotoxins.
The dose makes the poison, caffeine is a pesticide.