Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#211

Post by qqqwerty » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 3:49 AM UTC

fallous wrote: post #203

qqqwerty wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that the energy inputs required to produce a gallon of gasoline could approximately power an EV vehicle roughly the same distance that a typical ICE could go on a gallon of gasoline. A quick google search seems to back that up.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same comparisons that you are regarding travel distances. A Tesla Model 3 uses 24-29 kWh/100 miles (depends on drive/battery options) which would be 4-5 gallons of gasoline. That would be 20-25MPG assuming the 10kWh/gallon ICE which is pretty low for a mid-sized sedan. An Accord hybrid pulls around 48MPG, while a Dodge Charger Hellcat SRT manages an EPA combined 23MPG (hardly a typical ICE…

The average MPG in the US is around 25mpg[1]. So assuming that 6 kWh of electricity from the grid (big assumption, see below) is used to refine a gallon of gas, then it seems like the math pencils out. Of course the MPG average includes trucks and SUVS, etc, so not a perfect comparison but very much in the ballpark.

Regarding the 6kWh number, I have been having a lot of trouble confirming it. Some stuff I have read says that refineries are major consumers of grid electricity. Others claim that they can produce most of their energy needs from the oil distillates on-site. My best guess is that it probably depends on how old the refinery is, because it seems like the older reports/estimates tend to mention the electricity consumption, whereas the newer ones mention the 'on-site' energy generation/consumption. I think a lot of the energy demand of the refinery is used for heating, so burning the oil distillates would be way more efficient than using grid electricity for that. So, it may just be the case that older refineries are way less efficient than newer ones, and the 'EV vs ICE' comparison depends on how modern the refineries are in your area.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions/u-s-vehic...

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#212

Post by notatoad » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:02 AM UTC

dbcurtis wrote: post #130

Am I the only one who finds the spare tire location an absolute deal breaker? You have to unload the payload, and lift up the payload bed floor in order to access the spare. Now, I suppose this doesn't matter much to Amazon. But I have had the experience of being out the back-country where cell phones don't work, miles from a highway, changing a truck tire by myself. If I had to spend 1 or 2 hours unloading the truck…

honestly, "how trucks are actually used" is mostly in a city, commuting to and from work, with the bed completely empty.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#213

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:03 AM UTC

Robotbeat wrote: post #76

dyeje wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Amazon is working towards building its own shipping empire [1] [2]. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/08/07/749163966/fedex-is-breaking-u... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/amazon-will-compete-with-fed...

I see Amazon shipping vans in my neighborhood fairly regularly.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#214

Post by orthecreedence » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:18 AM UTC

rsynnott wrote: post #164

xxpor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These seem like they'd never work in the US. They aren't fast enough to go on the highway and their range is limited to 62 miles.

The US has cities, I believe.

Do you have any sources to back up this claim?

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#215

Post by cheez » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:41 AM UTC

perardi wrote: post #101

lp251 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my father worked at the Mitsubishi plant for 20-something years. left a few years before they shut down. spent 5 years at Tesla. he just started at rivian, back in the old Mitsubishi plant. has to be surreal

My dad started way back in 1989, and had the fortune to take an early retirement package. Now he spends his days doing adult enrichment at Bradley University. Living the sweet mid-century union dream.

Does he blame your generation for being lazy

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#216

Post by Gibbon1 » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #105

cptskippy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered what long term issues one might encounter with a Volt. Can the gas in the tank go bad? I know modern fuel has a lot of preservatives. Has anyone experienced any issues with summer vs winter blends? You're potentially carrying out of season gas in your tank.

>Can the gas in the tank go bad? I know modern fuel has a lot of preservatives. This is something that is occasionally mentioned in speculative apocalyptic scenarios. It will go bad, after about a year you wouldn't be able to use any random car without swapping out its gas with some from a better preserved source.

I know an ex-junkman. He said that MTBE gasoline pissed him off because it went bad they had to pay to get rid of it. But they would fill their cars with the non MTBE gasoline no matter how old it was.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#217

Post by de_watcher » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 6:13 AM UTC

tootie wrote: post #45

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #9

Wow, 100k is no small change. Hoping this accelerates the "tipping point" for electric vehicles - in my mind that's when the infrastructure for EVs (e.g. charging stations, or something in the future like battery swaps) actually makes it easier to own than a gas vehicle.

I honestly don't understand why electric vehicle manufacturers went direct to consumer. Fleets are the ones that are looking at pure economics and would have the most to gain by cutting down on energy consumption.

They went to fleets too. We just have more information about direct customers because we're direct customers.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#218

Post by jansan » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 6:14 AM UTC

csours wrote: post #50

jt2190 wrote: post #6

Amazon led a USD 700 000 000 investment round in Rivian last February. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/02/electric-truck-startup-... (Edit: change amount from thousands to millions)

So 700 000 000/100 000 would be 7 000 - So an initial investment of 7 000 per vehicle they want to buy. Now if they buy 100 000 vehicles at a rate of $100 000 each (pretty reasonable for industrial vehicles), that is 10 000 000 000 (10 Billion dollars). If it's $50k each, that will be $5B. $5-10 Billion in sales ain't too shabby.

Maybe you are totally mixing up revenue and profit.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#219

Post by de_watcher » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 6:15 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #192

Gibbon1 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe five years ago I observed that Nissan and Tesla were homing in on the same market from opposite directions. Tesla built the Roadster which is a toy. Then the Luxo Model X and S Sedans followed by the affordable Model 3. Nissan built the affordable but limited range Leaf and just kept increasing the range every other year or so. They basically started each with one type of suck (Tesla=Price, Nissan=Range) and wo…

Oddly the leaf sales peek in 2014 then heavily fall back. http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/nissan/nissan-leaf... So, I am not sure if they are actually moving the right direction vs introducing new car with better specks and keeping the leaf as cheap as possible. PS: I am guessing a reverse halo effect is going on.

Hyundai and Renault have better offers now.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#220

Post by _AzMoo » Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 6:20 AM UTC

dbcurtis wrote: post #167

_AzMoo wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't be too hard to just mount a wheel carrier in the bed, or swinging on the rear, and just use that spot as extra storage though. I don't know a single off-roader who doesn't mod their vehicle in similar ways to make up for perceived shortcomings.

> Can't be too hard to just mount a wheel carrier in the bed Um... yeah. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a truck.

You stand them upright so you've still got plenty of space in the bed. It's very common here in Australia.