Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#91

Post by igravious » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #8

devmunchies wrote: post #2

whats the carbon footprint of producing a single van?

The more correct question is: Liftime EV-Van Footprint = Production-Footprint(EV-Van) + Operational-Footprint(EV-Van, lifetime-miles-driven) vs Lifetime ICE-Van Footprint = Production-Footprint(ICE-Van) + Operational-Footprint(ICE-Van, lifetime-miles-driven) This calculation overwhelmingly favors the EV van, increasingly so as the carbon footprint of the operational electricity source itself reduces in footprint (i.e…

If you used a programming language where you could only create (prod-footprint) and modify the state of (op-footprint) objects but you could never garbage collect them … what would you think of that language?

Don't you need + Disposal-Footprint(EV-Van) and + Disposal-Footprint(ICE-Van) tacked on to the end of both of your equations?

EV and ICE vans don't magically poof! into thin air once you're done with them.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#92

Post by brackle » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #82

zelos wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For ICE vehicles production and disposal are about 15% of the total carbon footprint, the rest is fuel and servicing. Lat time I saw the figure the total impact of producing an EV was more, but the lifetime impact was about 30-40% of an ICE. EVs really are a lot more efficient. When I worked it out for an EV charging from 'average' UK electricity, it was about 25% of my (already small and efficient) ICE car.

Petrol is a large tax source in the UK -- every mile you drive in a petrol car funds your local school.

Governments can tax EV owners to offset the loss of fuel taxes. In many US States, the fees payed by EV owners exceed fuel taxes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/electric-car-state...

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#93

Post by cptskippy » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:09 PM UTC

Robotbeat wrote: post #74

danans wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already easier with a plugin hybrid. You can drive electric for a huge amount of the typical 20 mile daily commute, and rarely having to visit the gas station, with most of your miles being powered by the grid. If you're interested in that route, there are a ton of used Chevy Volts on the market now for $15-20k. And PHEVs are great for people in areas without good public charging infra, or who can't afford the c…

Yup. This is my experience. Bought a used Volt for $10k 3-4 years ago and probably have only visited a gas station about a dozen times since then. And there's significant East Coast charging infrastructure. I bought a used Leaf (first gen, I needed 5 seats for my wife's car since the first gen Volt only has 4) for $10k a year or two ago and have used Chademo charging several times without problem. The low range of th…

I've always wondered what long term issues one might encounter with a Volt.

Can the gas in the tank go bad? I know modern fuel has a lot of preservatives.

Has anyone experienced any issues with summer vs winter blends? You're potentially carrying out of season gas in your tank.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#94

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:10 PM UTC

perardi wrote: post #57

Warning: petty partisanship ahead. Our last Republican governor in Illinois spent some quality time trashing this company, which sure looks shortsighted in retrospect: https://www.adaptbn.com/home/2018/5/16/breaking-rauner-criti... He also made a point to trash all of Central Illinois as a place to do business, which is a heck of a strategy for business development. https://www.news-gazette.com/news/rauner-apologizes…

A politician from the Chicago area trashed downstate.

There's a saying about tigers and stripes for exactly this situation. Anyone who thought he would be good for downstate because he had an R beside his name was thinking very wishfully.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#95

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #20

qsymmachus wrote: post #7

As far as I'm concerned, this move is pure greenwashing until Amazon stops collaborating with oil and gas companies to extract fossil fuels faster. https://aws.amazon.com/oil-and-gas/

The sooner Amazon helps get all of the oil and gas out of the ground, the sooner we'll be forced to adopt electric cars.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#96

Post by andrewmunsell » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:13 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #37

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #9

Wow, 100k is no small change. Hoping this accelerates the "tipping point" for electric vehicles - in my mind that's when the infrastructure for EVs (e.g. charging stations, or something in the future like battery swaps) actually makes it easier to own than a gas vehicle.

It's already easier with a plugin hybrid. You can drive electric for a huge amount of the typical 20 mile daily commute, and rarely having to visit the gas station, with most of your miles being powered by the grid. If you're interested in that route, there are a ton of used Chevy Volts on the market now for $15-20k. And PHEVs are great for people in areas without good public charging infra, or who can't afford the c…

I have an i3 REx right now (also super cheap for older models), which is basically a BEV with a backup generator that powers the battery (not the wheels, like a typical hybrid or PHEV).

I am on electricity 99.9% of the time for any commuting or local drives, but it enables me to do trips of practically any length which is great for me. It's a good stepping stone and my next car will be a pure BEV, but the convenience (and backup gas generator because I don't have in-home charging, I live in an apartment complex) is a lifesaver sometimes.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#97

Post by ars » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:14 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #2

whats the carbon footprint of producing a single van?

You can get a pretty decent number for the carbon footprint by using dollars instead.

Add the cost of the van, plus cost of power to the van, vs cost of ICE van, plus fuel.

Then compare.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#98

Post by Robotbeat » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:18 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #93

Robotbeat wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. This is my experience. Bought a used Volt for $10k 3-4 years ago and probably have only visited a gas station about a dozen times since then. And there's significant East Coast charging infrastructure. I bought a used Leaf (first gen, I needed 5 seats for my wife's car since the first gen Volt only has 4) for $10k a year or two ago and have used Chademo charging several times without problem. The low range of th…

I've always wondered what long term issues one might encounter with a Volt. Can the gas in the tank go bad? I know modern fuel has a lot of preservatives. Has anyone experienced any issues with summer vs winter blends? You're potentially carrying out of season gas in your tank.

The car takes care of that by keeping track of when you fuel. It will burn some of the gas to keep it from going bad, to keep the engine oiled, and occasionally to keep the vehicle warm.

The gas tank is pretty small (9 gallons), so it's not a big issue and only a tiny amount of fuel is used for these things. I normally keep about a quarter to half a tank in there, which is enough to be more than comfortable but not enough that I'm burning a lot of gas to keep it from going bad. It automatically keeps the average age of gas in the tank from going over 6 months.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#99

Post by delfinom » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:21 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #93

Robotbeat wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. This is my experience. Bought a used Volt for $10k 3-4 years ago and probably have only visited a gas station about a dozen times since then. And there's significant East Coast charging infrastructure. I bought a used Leaf (first gen, I needed 5 seats for my wife's car since the first gen Volt only has 4) for $10k a year or two ago and have used Chademo charging several times without problem. The low range of th…

I've always wondered what long term issues one might encounter with a Volt. Can the gas in the tank go bad? I know modern fuel has a lot of preservatives. Has anyone experienced any issues with summer vs winter blends? You're potentially carrying out of season gas in your tank.

>I've always wondered what long term issues one might encounter with a Volt.

It's a Chevy...so expect some pretty bad engineering defects with everything but the engine/drivetrain.

Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks from Rivian

#100

Post by Robotbeat » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:22 PM UTC

delfinom wrote: post #99

cptskippy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered what long term issues one might encounter with a Volt. Can the gas in the tank go bad? I know modern fuel has a lot of preservatives. Has anyone experienced any issues with summer vs winter blends? You're potentially carrying out of season gas in your tank.

>I've always wondered what long term issues one might encounter with a Volt. It's a Chevy...so expect some pretty bad engineering defects with everything but the engine/drivetrain.

I've had an incredibly good experience with the Volt. They deployed their best engineers to work on it. It was probably the best made Chevy at the time, a kind of flagship project.