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Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

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Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#41
post #31
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DEET is a good acetylcholinesterase inhibitor - certainly possible it has mild hallucinogenic effects.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEET DEET isn’t a cholinesterase inhibitor.

Yes, but it’s commonly combined with carbamate which is.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#42
post #22

> The embassies actively sprayed in offices, as well as inside and outside diplomatic residences — sometimes five times more frequently than usual. Many times, spraying operations were carried out every two weeks, according to embassy records. Wow, that is really alarming. I would never feel comfortable with that inside my home or office.

You kind of wonder, if someone's fumigating your office that often, and then you suddenly get sick, why wouldn't that be the first thing you look at? Like, "Hmm, what about this giant cloud of bug spray? Maybe I'm allergic or something?" Why did they jump to, "The Cubans must have Marvin the Martian's P-U-38 Explosive Space Modulator that they're shooting at my ears."

Maybe the spraying happened at night when everyone was out of the office so nobody was none the wiser?

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#43
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEET DEET isn’t a cholinesterase inhibitor.

Yes, but it’s commonly combined with carbamate which is.

Carbamate is an insecticide. In what insect repellent products is it combined with DEET?

And in terms of cholinesterase inhibition, there was a 2009 paper that said it was. Digging into it, it was when applied in vitro at a concentration of 20uM, which you’d need to drink hundreds of milliliters to achieve.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#44
More lies on top of lies.

IF this is effecting all of Cuba then this is exactly fucking hysteria.

It's not Russian spies, it's not magic sonic weapons that sound like crickets but for some reason can't be crickets! We seriously had recordings of crickets which the world knows what they sound like yet the Emperor still had no clothes.

It's hysteria.

On top of that the brains studies so far have been disproven.

And how did it affect the diplomats in China and other countries?

Seriously the whole mystical city of Havana has brain damage but only the North Americans have found out?

Banging my head on a wall reading these dumb stories is the only brain damage here.

He even says they are a 'very strong group' EXACTLY were you expect hysteria.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my father was a child, he would bike behind the trucks that sprayed DDT all over the neighborhood because the DDT mist kept him cool. I hope you'll be fine, because people have done much worse!

Yep. We did this in the deep south when I was growing up. Good times.

Same here, in rural south Louisiana in the 90s. Whelp, uh, I think I'm fine ...

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#47
post #2

tl; dr: - Neurological studies show actual damage to the same region of the brain for these diplomats - Pesticides (organophosphates) are put out as a candidate theory. - Research shows people whose residences were sprayed MORE with pesticide had greater symptoms, adding strong evidence - Mass Hysteria is dismissed as a theory, as the group of people experiencing it is highly vetted and because the diagnosis is only…

It is very hard to diagnose light brain injuries. The problem is that no one knows what a healthy brain should look like because we are all different so (unless you have before and after images) you can't say if a brain is injured. Another problem is that the neurologists making their judgement likely were primed - they know that something was wrong with the brains in the images so they looked for exactly that.

This blog post explains these issues in more detail: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2018/04/07/ba...

That said, it would be very interesting if they can show brain injuries from exposure to common pesticides. I wonder what impact such result would have on millions of farm workers or even on people living close to highways.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#48
post #9

Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds…

When my father was a child, he would bike behind the trucks that sprayed DDT all over the neighborhood because the DDT mist kept him cool. I hope you'll be fine, because people have done much worse!

I drank lots of Coca-cola for decades, thinking it's only sugar, what could go wrong?

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#49

Maybe we would use less pesticides if we just called them neurotoxins.

The dose makes the poison, caffeine is a pesticide.

Caffeine and nicotine are pesticides that humans have metabolic pathways to deal with.

Dogs, for instance, can't handle theobromine.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my father was a child, he would bike behind the trucks that sprayed DDT all over the neighborhood because the DDT mist kept him cool. I hope you'll be fine, because people have done much worse!

Ha I remember doing the same thing when I was ~6 years old in South Korea. There would be these trucks that went around spraying mosquito killing fog in the apartment complexes and all the little kids from the neighborhood would run behind them. Well now I'm 30 and so far things seem to be ok! Fingers crossed

Yup, this has been my experience growing up outside of the US.

Watching this video made me facepalm really hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2NmuQW8cjE

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