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Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

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Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#61

Post by r00fus »

sandworm101 wrote: post #8
omarhaneef wrote: post #5

My first thought was: how is NYC not on this list since it has cameras on every block, and has for decades. And then I saw this: "Atlanta was the only place in the U.S. to crack the top ten, with 15.56 cameras per thousand residents." So they are looking at cameras per 1000 residents. This seems like the wrong way to count. If you point a camera at a block, you see everyone on that block whether there is one person o…

What matters more than the number of cameras is how/if the cameras are integrated. I don't much care that the local gas station has cameras tied to a 30-day DVR. I expect that. I don't expect them to be connected to facial-recognition AI, networked to the national police, and be feeding my movements into a citizenship score system that will impact my future job prospects.

How would one calculate that score?

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#62

Post by moate »

sandworm101 wrote: post #20
AJRF wrote: post #9

Top 20 1. Chongqing, China – 2,579,890 cameras for 15,354,067 people = 168.03 cameras per 1,000 people 2. Shenzhen, China – 1,929,600 cameras for 12,128,721 people = 159.09 cameras per 1,000 people 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 4. Tianjin, China – 1,244,160 cameras for 13,396,402 people = 92.87 cameras per 1,000 people 5. Ji’nan, China – 540,463 cameras…

How deep was this list? I expect that places like Quantico Virginia might have more cameras. Quanitico has a population of around 500 people, but it right beside bases for the Army, FBI, DEA ... basically everyone that really really likes cameras.

Photographers "like" cameras. The Government likes tracking citizens. Slight difference, but semantically different

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#63

Post by baddox »

r00fus wrote: post #61
sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What matters more than the number of cameras is how/if the cameras are integrated. I don't much care that the local gas station has cameras tied to a 30-day DVR. I expect that. I don't expect them to be connected to facial-recognition AI, networked to the national police, and be feeding my movements into a citizenship score system that will impact my future job prospects.

How would one calculate that score?

Investigative journalism.

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#64

Post by r00fus »

sandworm101 wrote: post #20
AJRF wrote: post #9

Top 20 1. Chongqing, China – 2,579,890 cameras for 15,354,067 people = 168.03 cameras per 1,000 people 2. Shenzhen, China – 1,929,600 cameras for 12,128,721 people = 159.09 cameras per 1,000 people 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 4. Tianjin, China – 1,244,160 cameras for 13,396,402 people = 92.87 cameras per 1,000 people 5. Ji’nan, China – 540,463 cameras…

How deep was this list? I expect that places like Quantico Virginia might have more cameras. Quanitico has a population of around 500 people, but it right beside bases for the Army, FBI, DEA ... basically everyone that really really likes cameras.

Is Quantico considered a civilian area? Can I visit?

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#65

Post by MrZongle2 »

Bostonian wrote: post #12

If the surveillance leads to the prompt arrest of violent criminals, it may be a good thing. I expect privacy in my home, not while on the sidewalk.

Color me cynical, but the surveillance is really just for the post-mortem and to justify additional future spending on surveillance.

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#66

Post by ynniv »

sandworm101 wrote: post #8
omarhaneef wrote: post #5

My first thought was: how is NYC not on this list since it has cameras on every block, and has for decades. And then I saw this: "Atlanta was the only place in the U.S. to crack the top ten, with 15.56 cameras per thousand residents." So they are looking at cameras per 1000 residents. This seems like the wrong way to count. If you point a camera at a block, you see everyone on that block whether there is one person o…

What matters more than the number of cameras is how/if the cameras are integrated. I don't much care that the local gas station has cameras tied to a 30-day DVR. I expect that. I don't expect them to be connected to facial-recognition AI, networked to the national police, and be feeding my movements into a citizenship score system that will impact my future job prospects.

Well, Atlanta has integrated over 10,000 cameras and 200 pole mounted automated license plate readers. The per capita statistics are distorted by the relatively small boundary of the City of Atlanta, but there are still a lot of cameras.

[https://atlantapolicefoundation.org/programs/operation-shiel...]

[https://www.muckrock.com/foi/atlanta-325/2018-vigilant-data-...]

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#67

Post by shadowprofile77 »

Bostonian wrote: post #12

If the surveillance leads to the prompt arrest of violent criminals, it may be a good thing. I expect privacy in my home, not while on the sidewalk.

Nobody does have an expectation of basic privacy on the sidewalk and they never have, from mutually disconnected agents like watching neighbors, random photographers, the occasional store camera etc.... The argument isn't even about these things. It's being watched by a vast interconnected network of AI-monitored facial recognition cameras that all feed into a centrally readable series of government databases which are cross referenced with other personal records of people (that can also, by the way, be hacked) and is also sold to bigcorps for intrusive, constant monetization that is a whole different order of privacy violation in any public space. This is what saying you have no expectation of privacy in public completely misses the larger point about... The latter is a much more terrifying prospect and it's well on its way.

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#68

Post by rwmurrayVT »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #52
shanecoin wrote: post #2

Atlanta Chicago Washington D.C. San Francisco San Diego Boston

And that's kind of weird. I could see Washington having heavy surveillance, for security. But Atlanta and San Diego? What's up with that?

ATL is the fraud capital of the USA and they're really only counting the tiny part of true Atlanta. San Diego has NBSD and several large shipyards in a small area.

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#69

Post by mytailorisrich »

olivermarks wrote: post #56
mytailorisrich wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of surveillance (and other) videos of the London Bridge attack. The question is rather why would they publicise videos of people being stabbed to death or run over in HD gory details?

who is 'they'? There are vey few surveillance videos of that incident publicly available. I was thinking of this one when I wrote the above https://youtu.be/BR1s7az-f-k

> There are vey few surveillance videos of that incident publicly available.

Indeed. That's what I wrote.

I think it's a good thing.

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