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Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

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Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#301
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not something to "remember". If you don't know this, you don't understand it.

I don't think so, I think this is one of the easiest things to forget. Even in school, Big-O is used almost exclusively, very rarely do you see Big-Omega, Big-Theta, Little-O, etc. Even though in algorithmic analysis these are all used to give a more accurate characterization of the algorithms behavior. Its funny, too, because the professionals (that are admittedly very smart) that like to talk down about Big-O as if…

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Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#302
post #36

I don't have a degree (though I do have a few years of college in the CS /engineering fields) and I'm pretty sure every programming job I've ever had required a "degree", if you were to look at their posted job requirements. If it's known that you can do the work (which is the kicker of course), I've never seen an employer hiring people to write code actually care about the degree. Even in academic environments I've…

As a hiring manager, I fully agree. All our job postings say "CS degree required". But if you have experience and a good resume it absolutely doesn't matter. It matter a lot more for juniors who lack any sort of experience. I think it make good sense for young people to get a degree but it makes less sense for seasoned professionals to go back and get one. If you don't have a degree but have experience, don't let the…

My view is if the applicants did a self assessment and meet 75% of the requirements but could cover the gaps through some other way, they should apply.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the huge chip on people's shoulders about "not having a degree" Glad to see I’m not the only one who winces at this. As bad as intellectual snobbery is, reverse/anti-intellectual snobbery is worse: “we don’t take to all yer fancy book learnin’ in these here parts!” It often seems to be lost that the difference isn’t between somebody with a four-year-degree and somebody with 10 years of experience, but between someb…

It's interesting that you think you need to attend college to be an "intellectual", and that people who didn't attend or chose not to continue must hold "anti-intellectual" views, that should definitely tell you something about your own narcissism. It sounds like you went to college and I think that's great, I hope you learned a lot and got a lot of value out of it, but try not to disparage the people who decided not…

> And as a follow up, does it make you "wince" when you see how much you paid to learn what I learned for free?

I find it very unlikely I would have learned the things I know had it not been for university.

Besides, I don't live in the US (thank god) so I was actually paid by the state to study.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#304
post #36

I don't have a degree (though I do have a few years of college in the CS /engineering fields) and I'm pretty sure every programming job I've ever had required a "degree", if you were to look at their posted job requirements. If it's known that you can do the work (which is the kicker of course), I've never seen an employer hiring people to write code actually care about the degree. Even in academic environments I've…

I've conducted maybe like 50+ interviews for a big tech company. The only thing a CS degree would consistently tell me, isn't that the candidate had an understanding of CS, but rather that they'd be more likely to be happy existing in a corporate environment, because they were able to follow through on a four year long commitment doing what authority figures tell them to do in their schooling environment.

It's worth pursuing a CS degree if you're the sort of person who will be accepted by one of the best schools. If the schools that teach computer science won't accept you, then please don't let it turn you off to the idea of computer science. If you can code, you're already a programmer, no matter how young you may be. If you've got grit and a positive attitude, you can absolutely be successful.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#305
post #36

I don't have a degree (though I do have a few years of college in the CS /engineering fields) and I'm pretty sure every programming job I've ever had required a "degree", if you were to look at their posted job requirements. If it's known that you can do the work (which is the kicker of course), I've never seen an employer hiring people to write code actually care about the degree. Even in academic environments I've…

> Now, you should definitely get a CS degree or similar if you want to be a programmer. I would have done a lot better having one even though I got by without it. Also, my career path was ridiculous and is entirely non-replicable. I agree completely. As a dropout, I've had people bother me asking how they should go about a career in tech, and I will tell them unambigously "for the love of god, please go to school". S…

> Being self-taught is fun, but without credentials you end up having to work at companies that are willing to take chances, and as a result of that these companies have a propensity towards going bankrupt, or being run by scumbags who will run away with all the investor money (true story).

Systems Engineering is what you want my friend. Companies are totally willing to be adventurous in their hiring when staffing roles like SRE, since SRE requires skills that schools haven't figured out how to teach.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#306

How do you know someone doesn't have a CS degree? They'll tell you. You're right: Nobody cares you don't have a degree. It's not impressive, it is just normal. What I have a problem with is the huge chip on people's shoulders about "not having a degree" and insisting on dissing anyone who chose to go a different route. I have a CS degree, I went to school on a scholarship, did not have these massive loans and "wasted…

> Experience for software development is worth much less than people give it credit for. I strongly disagree with this. You can read all the books you want, but when it comes to making a decision about a set of tradeoffs, there is no substitute for the experience of having made a similar decision in production before and having seen what works well and what doesn't. So many of the nuances of real-world production sys…

You can work on all the real world production systems you want, but not all production systems are created and operated equally. Engineers who haven't received very specific types of training might address issues in ways that doesn't solve the root cause, leading to bad habits and potentially endless cycles of fires.

What I feel matters more than books, experience, and everything else, is simply being plugged in to an environment where you can socialize with the folks who've received the most outstanding training, and by osmosis, having the neural network between your ears attuned to their biases and areas of focus.

Higher education does a good job at this. So does working for a big company.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#307
post #5

This only matters for one's first job, if that. Afterwards it's irrelevant. Regardless of what the job description says, it's never mattered in my experience working at well over a dozen companies in the last twelve years or so.

> working at well over a dozen companies in the last twelve years or so. That is the one legit reason I've ever heard for a degree -- To know that people are able and willing to stick with a multi-year effort. Moving every year or two when getting rolling with your career is one thing. More than one job per year for over a decade is something else entirely. It doesn't mean I would throw out your resume, but it does m…

I've been in my current position for almost six years. Also, I do have a degree. It's just not in CS. And yes many jobs were contracting at the beginning or hopping for better pay. Everyone in the valley does it if they can.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#309

How do you know someone doesn't have a CS degree? They'll tell you. You're right: Nobody cares you don't have a degree. It's not impressive, it is just normal. What I have a problem with is the huge chip on people's shoulders about "not having a degree" and insisting on dissing anyone who chose to go a different route. I have a CS degree, I went to school on a scholarship, did not have these massive loans and "wasted…

I fell for the propaganda a few years ago and opted not to go to school on the basis of "too much theory" "side projects" etc. and am just now starting to believe that it was the biggest mistake of my career. I'm starting to realize now that if I want the chance to work on interesting problems (let alone be smart enough to work on them), not having a degree will be crippling and I have a ton of catching up to do on CS in general. Unfortunately, I looked at going back and even going to a crappy state school would likely leave me dug in debt

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#310

My lack of degree has never been relevant in my 12-year-long coding career, I have never had issues getting jobs I want and often seen them choose me over someone with a degree. Side projects, my obvious passion for coding, and eventually, of course, my experience got me where I’m at, making a triple-digit salary as a senior iOS developer at a major bank here in Canada. I’m so very glad I avoided the horrors of stude…

A lot of self taught programmers have gaps in knowledge especially when it comes to synchronization, how threading works, basic data structure and operation complexity on them. Whenever it's required they say "it's not required for web development". Of course I don't say this for all but many of them have this problem. Bootcamps don't help.

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to fill those gaps. The process typically goes like this.

1. Realise I need to learn x, out of interest, necessity, etc.

2. Start reading a book on x, the book assumes I have an understanding on y and z as well, which I don't, so I realize I should learn those first.

3. Buy a book on y or z

4. Repeat step 2, but for whatever I just started reading on.

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