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Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

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Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#161

How do you know someone doesn't have a CS degree? They'll tell you. You're right: Nobody cares you don't have a degree. It's not impressive, it is just normal. What I have a problem with is the huge chip on people's shoulders about "not having a degree" and insisting on dissing anyone who chose to go a different route. I have a CS degree, I went to school on a scholarship, did not have these massive loans and "wasted…

> Probably would have had a different experience if I went to whatever crappy state school was nearby.

I went to a bottom-ranked state school and loved it.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#162

How do you know someone doesn't have a CS degree? They'll tell you. You're right: Nobody cares you don't have a degree. It's not impressive, it is just normal. What I have a problem with is the huge chip on people's shoulders about "not having a degree" and insisting on dissing anyone who chose to go a different route. I have a CS degree, I went to school on a scholarship, did not have these massive loans and "wasted…

> the huge chip on people's shoulders about "not having a degree"

Glad to see I’m not the only one who winces at this. As bad as intellectual snobbery is, reverse/anti-intellectual snobbery is worse: “we don’t take to all yer fancy book learnin’ in these here parts!” It often seems to be lost that the difference isn’t between somebody with a four-year-degree and somebody with 10 years of experience, but between somebody with a four-year-degree AND ten years of experience and somebody with ten (or even fourteen) years of experience and no degree at all. With machine learning finally coming into its own, software development is getting to be more mathematical, and what you learn in college actually is pretty useful.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#163

When you have 100+ applicants for a job, you have to apply a filter. Requiring a degree is an easy one to apply that your boss will support. Whether you get the best candidate or limit your hiring pool is immaterial. A guy I met years ago at a very large company had another filter - he used to split the pile of resumes in two, and throw half in the bin. He then said "I want the guy I hire to be lucky".

> Requiring a degree is an easy one to apply

It’s also a safe one in terms of low rate of false positives and low rate of false negatives. There are a few, of course (if there weren’t any, there’d be no need to meet the candidates), but ability to complete a four-year-degree correlates highly with ability to complete software projects.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#164
post #36

I don't have a degree (though I do have a few years of college in the CS /engineering fields) and I'm pretty sure every programming job I've ever had required a "degree", if you were to look at their posted job requirements. If it's known that you can do the work (which is the kicker of course), I've never seen an employer hiring people to write code actually care about the degree. Even in academic environments I've…

but, it's really sad that circumstances are such that people need to get useless degrees to compete for a job that doesn't really need the degree.

A CS degree teaches you so much more than what is needed for a software engineering job (it goes far beyond SE and teaches you about compiler design, networking, OS algorithms, analysis of algo, etc)

I have a 4 year degree in CS and a masters in CS. Despite over 15 years of SE experience, I haven't had much use for 80% of the stuff a CS degree teaches you.

However, as the poster has said, it's very useful for getting your foot in the door.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#165

How do you know someone doesn't have a CS degree? They'll tell you. You're right: Nobody cares you don't have a degree. It's not impressive, it is just normal. What I have a problem with is the huge chip on people's shoulders about "not having a degree" and insisting on dissing anyone who chose to go a different route. I have a CS degree, I went to school on a scholarship, did not have these massive loans and "wasted…

> Experience for software development is worth much less than people give it credit for.

I strongly disagree with this. You can read all the books you want, but when it comes to making a decision about a set of tradeoffs, there is no substitute for the experience of having made a similar decision in production before and having seen what works well and what doesn't. So many of the nuances of real-world production systems get lost in books and articles that it's hard to know when it's appropriate to apply that knowledge.

That said, I concede that "experience" doesn't necessarily have to be your own—you can learn from the experiences of your co-workers, friends at other companies, or random people on HN, you just have to take everything with a grain of salt.

> Hacking sucks. Just hacking at stuff for years on end leads to you being an expert beginner.

Solo tinkering is a poor substitute for the experience of building production systems with a team, but it's a great way to stretch the breadth of your experience. I have learned lots of different programming languages, platforms, and concepts in this way that have all made me a better programmer all around, even if nothing tangible came out of any of it.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#166

I understand the desire for a site like this from a job seeker's perspective (no CS degree here either), but what is the incentive for the employer? Are these no-CS job hunters not on every other site? As a job poster just put "No degree required" and your inbox should be flooded. I don't see "no degree" as a skill that needs to be sought by paying $99 to post a job.

I can imagine a company reasoning that someone who doesn't have a traditional CS education may approach problems from a unique perspective as they wouldn't have the standard logical flowchart in their heads you might expect from a CS graduate.

I remember taking a geology class as a substitute for an ecology class I couldn't get in to before I moved states for my environmental studies degree where the professor would often comment that my descriptions of certain geological principals were interesting to read through because I couldn't just regurgitate the info my classmates had from taking pre-requisite classes I didn't have to take.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#167

My lack of degree has never been relevant in my 12-year-long coding career, I have never had issues getting jobs I want and often seen them choose me over someone with a degree. Side projects, my obvious passion for coding, and eventually, of course, my experience got me where I’m at, making a triple-digit salary as a senior iOS developer at a major bank here in Canada. I’m so very glad I avoided the horrors of stude…

A lot of self taught programmers have gaps in knowledge especially when it comes to synchronization, how threading works, basic data structure and operation complexity on them. Whenever it's required they say "it's not required for web development". Of course I don't say this for all but many of them have this problem. Bootcamps don't help.

So what? A lot of college educated developers suck too. I know, because I've worked with them.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, you should definitely get a CS degree or similar if you want to be a programmer. I would have done a lot better having one even though I got by without it. Also, my career path was ridiculous and is entirely non-replicable. I agree completely. As a dropout, I've had people bother me asking how they should go about a career in tech, and I will tell them unambigously "for the love of god, please go to school". S…

> Being self-taught is fun, but without credentials you end up having to work at companies that are willing to take chances, and as a result of that these companies have a propensity towards going bankrupt This is one of the notable difference between my pre- and post-degree careers: a degree opened the door to jobs with stable Megacorps. I still get the opportunity to work on cool, cutting-edge stuff, while also hav…

I mean, I work for one of the biggest tech megacorps now (not going to say which one but I can guarantee you've heard of it), so it's definitely possible to get the stable job eventually as a dropout.

That said, it was a rocky and scary road to get to this point; if you get your degree you can often start out immediately with some stability.

I never took CS, as I was a math major before dropping out. Honestly, math is still more of a passion for me than CS (despite me loving programming), and I consequently do have some regrets about how I handled school; specifically, I'd like to get a job doing research, but as it stands that would require me first finishing my bachelor's, then getting at least a masters, and probably a PhD. Doing night school for a bachelor's is definitely doable, but I don't think I've heard of a single success story of people trying to work full time (which I would need to do to pay my mortgage and support my wife) and doing a PhD. If I had finished school the old fashioned way, I could have conceivably gone straight to grad school before entrenching myself into my current (admittedly comfortable) lifestyle.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a degree, but this is such an over-generalized comment. Many degree-owners have those same gaps you talked about, and some self-taught devs do not. I can't comment on Bootcamps, mainly because there seems to be a huge range in quality of graduates from those.

The point is probability. The probability of someone having these gaps from a top 50 school is way lower than one without a degree.

I'd like to see the statistics that demonstrate the probability you claim.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#170

When you have 100+ applicants for a job, you have to apply a filter. Requiring a degree is an easy one to apply that your boss will support. Whether you get the best candidate or limit your hiring pool is immaterial. A guy I met years ago at a very large company had another filter - he used to split the pile of resumes in two, and throw half in the bin. He then said "I want the guy I hire to be lucky".

> Requiring a degree is an easy one to apply It’s also a safe one in terms of low rate of false positives and low rate of false negatives. There are a few, of course (if there weren’t any, there’d be no need to meet the candidates), but ability to complete a four-year-degree correlates highly with ability to complete software projects.

> ability to complete a four-year-degree correlates highly with ability to complete software projects

[citation needed]

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