Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information • Hacker News Board

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#91

Post by Svip » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:20 AM UTC

jimhi wrote: post #87

jjcm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For myself (a US citizen living abroad), my biggest annoyance isn't that I'm taxed on my income overseas, it's that it effectively is taxation without representation. Even though I'm paying tax overseas, there's no US Representative who fights for my interests. I have one who fights for the interests of the residents of a district I lived in years ago, but I have no relation to that anymore. I have a US senator who f…

I am also a US citizen abroad and I don't understand your annoyance. This is exactly why Foreign Earned Income Exclusion exists. For anyone not aware you don't pay taxes on 100k if you are out of the USA 330 days out of the year. 200k if you are married. Do you qualify? Then you are exempt from such a ridiculous amount that it is hard to argue this. Or maybe you visit the USA too much to qualify? In which case you do…

It's still a lot of paperwork to file, just to get told you don't have to pay anything. And that's paperwork in addition to the paperwork you have to file in the country where you are earning your money.

Though, I am curious, since my wife is a US citizen, and we are living in my home country; does the 200k if married limit count, if your spouse is a foreign citizen (like say, me)?

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#92

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:20 AM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #37

Scoundreller wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the basic benefits is always being able to return to the US. Being inside American borders is very much safer than being anywhere else if/when the next major global military issue arises. It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Meanwhile, those developed countries with functioning health care systems that you can return to whenev…

>It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Does it actually? I assume that disparity is more to do with the populations of impoverished people around this very diverse country that can't compare to smaller European countries that just don't have those populations. There is no Mississippi in Germany, those populations are in other countries.…

There are plenty of large European countries with good healthcare systems: Germany, France and the UK, for example. I don't think there's a reason why countries with 60-80 million residents can establish good healthcare systems, but countries with 300 million people can't (even China, a much larger and poorer country than the US, is approaching universal coverage). But even if that were the case, individual US states could step in and set up their own universal healthcare systems.

> There is no Mississippi in Germany, those populations are in other countries.

It depends on what you mean by that comparison. Germany relatively recently absorbed a much poorer East Germany. There are still states like Mecklenburg-Vorpommern that are much poorer than the average in Germany. Yet they're all integrated into Germany's very good healthcare system. It could be the same in the US, but it isn't, for political reasons.

> If you compare the whole European Union to the US the disparity is much smaller.

This is not true. The European Union member states have a much greater range of GDP/capita than US states.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#93

Post by dbrgn » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #76

lawl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Swiss banks doesn't actually disclose to swiss authorities, even though the have a wealth tax based partially on the money in your bank account. (i'm swiss) I believe there is no way in hell they could have passed this legislation if it included giving data of swiss citizens to the swiss government. People here cherish their banking secrecy and it's still somewhat part of the national identity. From a swiss point o…

I loved in Switzerland recently, and I never really understood how the wealth tax works when the banks don't talk to the tax authorities. Is it entirely optional?

You fill out a tax declaration every year. If you don't disclose some values and this is discovered later on, you will be punishable with a fine (between 30% and 300% of the tax on the non-disclosed values). The fine can be avoided in some cases by self-indictment, but of course you'll still have to pay the avoided taxes plus interest.

If you even fake documents to avoid taxes, then you can end up in jail.

This system of "voluntary" tax declarations is like a contract between the government and the citizens: Government doesn't stick their nose into bank accounts of citizens, while citizens pay taxes on their assets. I'm not sure if it's a good system, but it has mostly worked out so far.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#94

Post by dbrgn » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:27 AM UTC

rolltiide wrote: post #30

Don't worry, Switzerland is still attractive for many reasons as a stable, competitive, well connected financial center. I think a lot of people don't realize that bank account privacy is just 1 of 20 distinctive qualities of Swiss institutions and regulatory structure. Switzerland is attractive because its not just shell companies and PO boxes, compared to other nations that try to offer similar nominal regulations.…

> The Swiss franc is currently pegged 1:1 with USD, having ditched Euro peg almost 5 years ago.

It's not.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#95

Post by jjcm » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:38 AM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #85

kelnos wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought was "wow, it would be cool if we had something like this in the US". But after a second, I realized that probably many people in the US are so rabidly nationalistic that if this were ever proposed, they would be against it, because "if you don't want to live in our great country, why do you deserve representation?" It's sad, really.

I’m not entirely convinced it’s fair for non residents to vote, especially those that have no intentions of coming back. Election results for French expats are typically very different from those back home. LePen was not even close to be qualified for a second turn in the last presidential elections in London. Unless you live in France you would typically not be subject to any of the laws the new government would ena…

I'm totally fine with not voting at the state level. I don't think it makes any sense that I can vote in a state I don't live in, just because it was the last one I lived in before I left the country.

But if they're taxing me, I deserve a vote at the federal level 100%.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#96

Post by jjcm » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:45 AM UTC

jimhi wrote: post #87

jjcm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For myself (a US citizen living abroad), my biggest annoyance isn't that I'm taxed on my income overseas, it's that it effectively is taxation without representation. Even though I'm paying tax overseas, there's no US Representative who fights for my interests. I have one who fights for the interests of the residents of a district I lived in years ago, but I have no relation to that anymore. I have a US senator who f…

I am also a US citizen abroad and I don't understand your annoyance. This is exactly why Foreign Earned Income Exclusion exists. For anyone not aware you don't pay taxes on 100k if you are out of the USA 330 days out of the year. 200k if you are married. Do you qualify? Then you are exempt from such a ridiculous amount that it is hard to argue this. Or maybe you visit the USA too much to qualify? In which case you do…

Just because I have a discount on my taxes (which is fair considering I don't use roads, public utilities, law enforcement services, emergency services, medicaid, or qualify for contributions towards my social security points) doesn't mean I don't deserve representation for the amount I pay over that discount.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#97

Post by carlmr » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:46 AM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #85

kelnos wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought was "wow, it would be cool if we had something like this in the US". But after a second, I realized that probably many people in the US are so rabidly nationalistic that if this were ever proposed, they would be against it, because "if you don't want to live in our great country, why do you deserve representation?" It's sad, really.

I’m not entirely convinced it’s fair for non residents to vote, especially those that have no intentions of coming back. Election results for French expats are typically very different from those back home. LePen was not even close to be qualified for a second turn in the last presidential elections in London. Unless you live in France you would typically not be subject to any of the laws the new government would ena…

>I’m not entirely convinced it’s fair for non residents to vote, especially those that have no intentions of coming back

I think it would be fair to be able to opt out of tax filing obligations in the US and for that give up the right to vote until you return.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#98

Post by kgwgk » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:53 AM UTC

kmonsen wrote: post #76

lawl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Swiss banks doesn't actually disclose to swiss authorities, even though the have a wealth tax based partially on the money in your bank account. (i'm swiss) I believe there is no way in hell they could have passed this legislation if it included giving data of swiss citizens to the swiss government. People here cherish their banking secrecy and it's still somewhat part of the national identity. From a swiss point o…

I loved in Switzerland recently, and I never really understood how the wealth tax works when the banks don't talk to the tax authorities. Is it entirely optional?

Under reporting is possible to some extent everywhere, that doesn’t mean that paying taxes is “optional”.

Hidden money cannot be spent and as soon as it surfaces you would have quite some explaining to do.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#99

Post by greatpatton » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:00 AM UTC

jimhi wrote: post #87

jjcm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For myself (a US citizen living abroad), my biggest annoyance isn't that I'm taxed on my income overseas, it's that it effectively is taxation without representation. Even though I'm paying tax overseas, there's no US Representative who fights for my interests. I have one who fights for the interests of the residents of a district I lived in years ago, but I have no relation to that anymore. I have a US senator who f…

I am also a US citizen abroad and I don't understand your annoyance. This is exactly why Foreign Earned Income Exclusion exists. For anyone not aware you don't pay taxes on 100k if you are out of the USA 330 days out of the year. 200k if you are married. Do you qualify? Then you are exempt from such a ridiculous amount that it is hard to argue this. Or maybe you visit the USA too much to qualify? In which case you do…

By the way 100k may seems a lot, but not in Switzerland where the median salary is at 80k$ per year. It means that if you are in a senior position you will make easily more than 100k... For that simple reason I personally know at least 3 ex US citizen that all renounced their citizenship (often painfully because of the paperwork involved).

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#100

Post by cm2187 » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:08 AM UTC

jackjeff wrote: post #85

kelnos wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first thought was "wow, it would be cool if we had something like this in the US". But after a second, I realized that probably many people in the US are so rabidly nationalistic that if this were ever proposed, they would be against it, because "if you don't want to live in our great country, why do you deserve representation?" It's sad, really.

I’m not entirely convinced it’s fair for non residents to vote, especially those that have no intentions of coming back. Election results for French expats are typically very different from those back home. LePen was not even close to be qualified for a second turn in the last presidential elections in London. Unless you live in France you would typically not be subject to any of the laws the new government would ena…

You are assuming all French nationals abroad have no intention of ever moving back to France. This is certainly true for a fraction of them but that’s only going to be a fraction.