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Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

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Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#71

Post by fhrow4484 »

andylynch wrote: post #64
tzs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are enough US citizens abroad to justify about 7 or 8 members of the House of Representatives, but how would you allocate them? There are enough in Mexico, and enough in Canada, and maybe enough in the Philippines to have one Representative for each of those. The rest, though, are sufficiently spread out that when you group enough different countries together to get enough US citizens for a Representative, that…

Maybe the US could look to France again - since they do just this in their National Assembly, and also have representatives for citizens aboard in the Senate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituencies_for_French_re...

Maybe France could not look at the US and also start taxing citizens everywhere in the world: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boursorama.com/actualite-ec... (french source)

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#72

Post by kelnos »

guerby wrote: post #70
jjcm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For myself (a US citizen living abroad), my biggest annoyance isn't that I'm taxed on my income overseas, it's that it effectively is taxation without representation. Even though I'm paying tax overseas, there's no US Representative who fights for my interests. I have one who fights for the interests of the residents of a district I lived in years ago, but I have no relation to that anymore. I have a US senator who f…

In France we have representation for citizens living abroad since 2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituencies_for_French_resi... "The constituencies for French residents overseas are eleven French constituencies, each electing one representative to the National Assembly."

My first thought was "wow, it would be cool if we had something like this in the US". But after a second, I realized that probably many people in the US are so rabidly nationalistic that if this were ever proposed, they would be against it, because "if you don't want to live in our great country, why do you deserve representation?" It's sad, really.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#73

Post by _trampeltier »

Havoc wrote: post #19
Muromec wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn’t there an article recently describing how you can register a company in UK through a web portal and put absolute rubbish in a UBO field without having to submit any single piece of documentary evidence?

No idea what UK company registration processes look like. Possibly. You're not gonna get far moving your mountain of coin without the help of lawyers, accountants, investment bankers, banks, prime brokers etc. ...none of whom will touch you if you can't prove this stuff reasonably well. As for people submitting straight up fraudulent info - rules don't stop people like that in the same way sternly telling a mugger th…

Analysis by Global Witness shows 87,000 properties – 40% of them in London – are anonymously owned by firms registered in tax havens

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/201...

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#74

Post by kelnos »

nradov wrote: post #18
dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

Swiss banks are in that position today because some of them engaged in criminal conspiracies to help US customers commit tax fraud. If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules. US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. So it's completely fair to tax them for that. We can argue about the value of…

I should think that if you are doing something that every other country in the world (save one[0]) does not do, you might want to at least consider that it just might be wrong, rather than cavalierly dismiss an opposing viewpoint out of hand.

> US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government.

Same deal for expat citizens of many other countries and their government, but they aren't taxed for it.

There's an expat downthread who was extracted from a dangerous country, and the US later sent him a bill for his services. After reading that, it jogged a memory of reading about this being a common occurrence. So what are these "services" he's supposedly paying taxes for?

> If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules.

This is just simple strong-arm bullying and control-freak data collection, and will almost certainly come back to bite the US as its economy declines over the next decades and loses the leverage to impose these sorts of things.

(Disclosure: I'm a US citizen who resides in the US, and think these regressive practices are gross.)

[0] Eritrea, which is not exactly the best company to be in with regard to this topic, since if you are an expat and don't pay taxes, they threaten your remaining family with violence until you pay. And that's just for a 2% flat tax.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#75

Post by [deleted] »

Causality1 wrote: post #54
nradov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss banks are in that position today because some of them engaged in criminal conspiracies to help US customers commit tax fraud. If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules. US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. So it's completely fair to tax them for that. We can argue about the value of…

Multi-citizenship is a very strange concept anyway. Sure you can check the boxes and countries A and B consider you a citizen, but it's bizarre to me that one nation would let you swear loyalty to another without revoking your citizenship. The naturalization oath of allegiance, at least the American one, is very explicit about conflicts of interest like that but we've just sort of chosen not to enforce those parts of…

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#76

Post by kmonsen »

lawl wrote: post #12
kmonsen wrote: post #6

Swiss banks doesn't actually disclose to swiss authorities, even though the have a wealth tax based partially on the money in your bank account.

> Swiss banks doesn't actually disclose to swiss authorities, even though the have a wealth tax based partially on the money in your bank account. (i'm swiss) I believe there is no way in hell they could have passed this legislation if it included giving data of swiss citizens to the swiss government. People here cherish their banking secrecy and it's still somewhat part of the national identity. From a swiss point o…

I loved in Switzerland recently, and I never really understood how the wealth tax works when the banks don't talk to the tax authorities. Is it entirely optional?

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#77

Post by CaptainZapp »

colechristensen wrote: post #29
captainpiggies wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss banking history and the process they and their US customers have to go through are entirely unrelated. The US simply created these regulations because for some strange reason the US believes it somehow has the authority to collect every last penny on every single citizen regardless of residence and or if that person gets any value out of having said citizenship. Something the rest of the world obviously doesn’t…

Swiss banks were doing business in the US, setting up offices in the US, and literally counseling American clients on how to export their assets. These were Americans living in America doing business with Swiss banks on American soil in order to avoid taxes. Several banks have been stomped on for this behavior, the "oldest bank in the world" closed as a result and there have been many other actions. If you don't want…

That's true, but has nothing to do with the mess US citizens have to go through, when opening a bank account abroad.

A lot of banks in Switzerland will outright refuse to deal with US customers, even when they have residency.

This is, however, not specific to Swiss banks. US citizens (or even green card holders) can have a hard time opening a bank account just about anywhere, because of such onerous reporting requirements[1] to the US authoritues that's it's just not worth their while.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Account_Tax_Compliance...

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#78

Post by filoleg »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #56
nradov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The factors which shorten average lifespans for Americans by a few years relative to some other developed countries are almost entirely lifestyle issues. They aren't actually caused by geographic location or government problems.

I think that’s debatable. France for example goes to great lengths to preserve local food culture and the protection of locally produced heirloom foods. The US government couldn’t care less. If everyone decided to eat only TV dinners and shelf stable snacks that would be A-OK, even desirable because that kind of thing leads to GDP growth. France would never allow it. US governments are borderline contemptuous of trad…

>If everyone decided to eat only TV dinners and shelf stable snacks that would be A-OK

>France would never allow it.

While I do not support eating unhealthy foods like that on a regular basis at all (I have some sort of instinctive repulsion towards that), I do support allowing adults to have the freedom to make their own choices regarding what they eat.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#79

Post by toomanybeersies »

rexreed wrote: post #67
jjcm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For myself (a US citizen living abroad), my biggest annoyance isn't that I'm taxed on my income overseas, it's that it effectively is taxation without representation. Even though I'm paying tax overseas, there's no US Representative who fights for my interests. I have one who fights for the interests of the residents of a district I lived in years ago, but I have no relation to that anymore. I have a US senator who f…

Do representatives really and honestly fight for the interests of their constituents or do they simply vote in ideological buckets. Dems with dems and repubs with repubs regardless of where you are? The local interests seem to be subservient to national goals at the federal level. I have yet to see our representatives really fighting for your interests. I'm not seeing much evidence of representative democracy but rat…

They do more than in other countries. Representatives have autonomy to vote as they see fit, without being beholden to the party line, for instance they can vote with their caucus [1].

This is in stark difference to countries like the UK, where MPs have to vote on the party line unless it's declared a conscience vote by the party leader [2]. Voting across party lines in Westminster system parliaments will get you kicked out of the party.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_caucus

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscience_vote

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#80

Post by CaptainZapp »

Muromec wrote: post #13
Havoc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's where the concept of UBO comes in - the reporting party is supposed to trace this through to the ultimate beneficial owner. And if they can't then they're not supposed to accept the business (KYC fail). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneficial_ownership A lot of the offshore locations a laymen can name report this stuff anyway (to varying degrees of course). The whole straight up hiding money approach(Or to pu…

Wasn’t there an article recently describing how you can register a company in UK through a web portal and put absolute rubbish in a UBO field without having to submit any single piece of documentary evidence?

I think you're looking for this one[1]

The UK, with their channel islands (and the BVI) are one of the biggest hypcrits when it comes to finger pointing regarding support of tax dodgers and plutocrats hiding their ill gotten gains.

Another convenient vehicle to hyde (pun intended) your dirty money is real estate via a shell company in the UK, mostly in London[2]

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/05/how-britain-ca...

[2] https://www.vanityfair.com/style/society/2013/04/mysterious-...

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