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Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

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Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#51

Post by voisin »

nradov wrote: post #45
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We can argue about the value of those services but clearly it's >0. From personal experience, I can tell you that (value of expatriate services) - (cost of dealing with US tax system) is a very deep negative value.

I assume you've never been in a foreign country when it fell apart and the US government had to evacuate their citizens. Some other expatriates weren't so lucky.

Fun fact: if evacuated in the manner you describe and as a civilian, you get a bill for it.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#52

Post by mindslight »

Havoc wrote: post #11
88840-8855 wrote: post #5

I am no expert, it would be great to read it from someone with knowledge in this field. What if a shell corp is created in a country that is not included in the list of the ownership info automatic exchange? Instead of option A, someone could go with option B and would be fully protected: Option A: Owner in the UK -> Swiss Bank account Option B: Owner in the UK -> Shell corp & legal entity in a country not included i…

That's where the concept of UBO comes in - the reporting party is supposed to trace this through to the ultimate beneficial owner. And if they can't then they're not supposed to accept the business (KYC fail). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beneficial_ownership A lot of the offshore locations a laymen can name report this stuff anyway (to varying degrees of course). The whole straight up hiding money approach(Or to pu…

Note that this only applies to banking. Assets "directly held" (eg fine art) are exempt from eg FACTA. A loophole big enough to drive a truck through, but only for the wealthy...

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#53

Post by Mirioron »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #21
nradov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss banks are in that position today because some of them engaged in criminal conspiracies to help US customers commit tax fraud. If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules. US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. So it's completely fair to tax them for that. We can argue about the value of…

Every single bank in every country that wishes to use USD is in that position today, it is not related to whether they were shown to help in some criminal activity. > US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. Seriously, like what? In how many percent of situations does this ever come up. Sure it's more than >0, but if it is like 1$/person do…

>This is economic bullying by a country that right now happens to be in a position (having strong military, influence and their currency being the reserve one) to be able to get away with it.

I wonder if this is the kind of stuff that pushes EU politicians forward with their notions that they cannot rely on the US?

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#54

Post by Causality1 »

nradov wrote: post #18
dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

Swiss banks are in that position today because some of them engaged in criminal conspiracies to help US customers commit tax fraud. If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules. US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. So it's completely fair to tax them for that. We can argue about the value of…

Multi-citizenship is a very strange concept anyway. Sure you can check the boxes and countries A and B consider you a citizen, but it's bizarre to me that one nation would let you swear loyalty to another without revoking your citizenship. The naturalization oath of allegiance, at least the American one, is very explicit about conflicts of interest like that but we've just sort of chosen not to enforce those parts of it.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#56

Post by erikpukinskis »

nradov wrote: post #44
Scoundreller wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the basic benefits is always being able to return to the US. Being inside American borders is very much safer than being anywhere else if/when the next major global military issue arises. It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Meanwhile, those developed countries with functioning health care systems that you can return to whenev…

The factors which shorten average lifespans for Americans by a few years relative to some other developed countries are almost entirely lifestyle issues. They aren't actually caused by geographic location or government problems.

I think that’s debatable. France for example goes to great lengths to preserve local food culture and the protection of locally produced heirloom foods.

The US government couldn’t care less. If everyone decided to eat only TV dinners and shelf stable snacks that would be A-OK, even desirable because that kind of thing leads to GDP growth. France would never allow it.

US governments are borderline contemptuous of tradition, and tend to court radical reinventions of basic needs. That leads to people getting hurt, but is great for the economy.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#57

Post by Scoundreller »

MR4D wrote: post #50
Scoundreller wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s part of the mess: the US tax system isn’t the same as others’, so you now have to optimize for 2 systems. Differing rules of what’s a short-term vs long term capital gain. E.g.: Canada doesn’t tax capital gains on your Primary residence when you sell it, but US does. And buying a non-US ETF can create another tax mess since you’ve now bought into a multibillion dollar trust that doesn’t file with the US gov. T…

The us does not tax capital gains on your primary residence unless you lived in it for less than 2 years. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/capitalgainhomes...

Seems even more complicated than that. It's only on $250k in gains, or $500k if you're a couple filing jointly.

It's a lot of money, but if you bought a house in Canada in Toronto/Vancouver 30 years ago, you'd be paying US CGT on its sale.

And can a US-citizen/non-US-citizen couple still file jointly?

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#58

Post by jjcm »

dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

For myself (a US citizen living abroad), my biggest annoyance isn't that I'm taxed on my income overseas, it's that it effectively is taxation without representation.

Even though I'm paying tax overseas, there's no US Representative who fights for my interests. I have one who fights for the interests of the residents of a district I lived in years ago, but I have no relation to that anymore. I have a US senator who fights for the interest of the state listed on my old drivers license, but none who represent me as an expat.

The US was founded precisely because those who were living overseas had no representative fighting for their rights, yet they were still taxed. The same thing is happening today. What I want isn't for this tax to stop, it's to have representation.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#59

Post by generatorguy »

Scoundreller wrote: post #57
MR4D wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The us does not tax capital gains on your primary residence unless you lived in it for less than 2 years. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/06/capitalgainhomes...

Seems even more complicated than that. It's only on $250k in gains, or $500k if you're a couple filing jointly. It's a lot of money, but if you bought a house in Canada in Toronto/Vancouver 30 years ago, you'd be paying US CGT on its sale. And can a US-citizen/non-US-citizen couple still file jointly?

In the US you also got to deduct the interest you paid on your mortgage from your taxable income for 30 years.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#60

Post by generatorguy »

novok wrote: post #22
magduf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>related : Vancouver BC reaching third most expensive city in the world status a couple of years back, for reasons that have little or nothing to do with local populations What is it due to? I imagine ease of access to Chinese people who want a place to park their savings, plus nice weather, are the biggest factors. After all, all those wealthy Chinese people could just go to another city, like Edmonton, but they don…

- Accessibility to flights - A large chinese community already being there, seeded by the HK hand over to china. The HK wave did not cause a real estate crisis. - Being known as a "good investment" in China. - RE firms that market in china for vancouver. - Most importantly of all, bad enforcement of money laundering and foreign income laws compared to the USA. If money laundering and tax laws were enforced as badly a…

Climate change has made it much nicer during the real estate boom! 2013-2016 had great summers and no smoke.
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