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Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

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Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#31

Post by captainpiggies »

silvestrov wrote: post #10
88840-8855 wrote: post #5

I am no expert, it would be great to read it from someone with knowledge in this field. What if a shell corp is created in a country that is not included in the list of the ownership info automatic exchange? Instead of option A, someone could go with option B and would be fully protected: Option A: Owner in the UK -> Swiss Bank account Option B: Owner in the UK -> Shell corp & legal entity in a country not included i…

Wouldn't a logical next step to extend this to all countries that USA + EU trades with? Banking moves slowly, so it will take many years, but I don't think Panama will be able to hide stuff in 50 years from now. If they can strongarm the Swiss, why shouldn't they be able to do it to a lot of other countries who want to trade with USA+EU ?

In my personal opinion individuals entirely hiding their assets from their native governments is a thing of the past. Why hide your assets and risk going to jail when you could just pay a consulting firm a fixed amount of money to optimize your tax rate and deductibles to the point where you essentially pay nothing at all.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#32

Post by Scoundreller »

colechristensen wrote: post #28
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single bank in every country that wishes to use USD is in that position today, it is not related to whether they were shown to help in some criminal activity. > US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. Seriously, like what? In how many percent of situations does this ever come up. Sure it's more than >0, but if it is like 1$/person do…

For starters the first $103,900 is tax free if you qualify and are living abroad. What it comes down to is that because of its size and economic power there is an enormous incentive for wealthy people who earn their income (in an actual sense, not a tax law menagerie sense) in the US to try to avoid US taxes by living abroad and moving assets, their "home", etc outside of US jurisdiction while still in reality earnin…

> One of the basic benefits is always being able to return to the US. Being inside American borders is very much safer than being anywhere else if/when the next major global military issue arises.

It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life.

Meanwhile, those developed countries with functioning health care systems that you can return to whenever don’t bother with worldwide taxation.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#33

Post by Scoundreller »

kube-system wrote: post #25
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single bank in every country that wishes to use USD is in that position today, it is not related to whether they were shown to help in some criminal activity. > US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. Seriously, like what? In how many percent of situations does this ever come up. Sure it's more than >0, but if it is like 1$/person do…

The most obvious is something like state department emergency assistance, but there's plenty of US government programs without a residency requirement. For example: federal student aid doesn't require US residency. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/international Also, the taxes that the US imposes on citizens overseas has some pretty significant exceptions. US citizens can deduct over $100,000 worth of their foreign…

That’s part of the mess: the US tax system isn’t the same as others’, so you now have to optimize for 2 systems.

Differing rules of what’s a short-term vs long term capital gain.

E.g.: Canada doesn’t tax capital gains on your Primary residence when you sell it, but US does.

And buying a non-US ETF can create another tax mess since you’ve now bought into a multibillion dollar trust that doesn’t file with the US gov.

The US doesn’t see your Canadian Tax-free savings account as tax free, so now you have to keep track of every transaction in there.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#34

Post by captainpiggies »

lawl wrote: post #12
kmonsen wrote: post #6

Swiss banks doesn't actually disclose to swiss authorities, even though the have a wealth tax based partially on the money in your bank account.

> Swiss banks doesn't actually disclose to swiss authorities, even though the have a wealth tax based partially on the money in your bank account. (i'm swiss) I believe there is no way in hell they could have passed this legislation if it included giving data of swiss citizens to the swiss government. People here cherish their banking secrecy and it's still somewhat part of the national identity. From a swiss point o…

After the 2009 financial crisis and the regulatory requirements which followed the major international Swiss banks were forced to split their retail and investment business into separate entities at about the same time they also started restructuring some other things I am pretty sure they saw this coming after FATCA / MIFID because they have all since split their Swiss business from their international business at least legally (separate legal entities under one brand and holding corp etc.)

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#35

Post by Scoundreller »

novok wrote: post #22
magduf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>related : Vancouver BC reaching third most expensive city in the world status a couple of years back, for reasons that have little or nothing to do with local populations What is it due to? I imagine ease of access to Chinese people who want a place to park their savings, plus nice weather, are the biggest factors. After all, all those wealthy Chinese people could just go to another city, like Edmonton, but they don…

- Accessibility to flights - A large chinese community already being there, seeded by the HK hand over to china. The HK wave did not cause a real estate crisis. - Being known as a "good investment" in China. - RE firms that market in china for vancouver. - Most importantly of all, bad enforcement of money laundering and foreign income laws compared to the USA. If money laundering and tax laws were enforced as badly a…

Such a mess that lawyers got exempted from a bunch of money transfer reporting regulations.

I get the need for lawyer-client confidentiality if you’re on trial for murder.

You don’t need it if you’re buying property.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#36

Post by gruez »

Scoundreller wrote: post #32
colechristensen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters the first $103,900 is tax free if you qualify and are living abroad. What it comes down to is that because of its size and economic power there is an enormous incentive for wealthy people who earn their income (in an actual sense, not a tax law menagerie sense) in the US to try to avoid US taxes by living abroad and moving assets, their "home", etc outside of US jurisdiction while still in reality earnin…

> One of the basic benefits is always being able to return to the US. Being inside American borders is very much safer than being anywhere else if/when the next major global military issue arises. It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Meanwhile, those developed countries with functioning health care systems that you can return to whenev…

>It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expe...

When accounting for all sexes, US sits at 79.3 years and the top country sits at 83.7 years. Where is this "7-8 years" coming from?

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#37

Post by colechristensen »

Scoundreller wrote: post #32
colechristensen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters the first $103,900 is tax free if you qualify and are living abroad. What it comes down to is that because of its size and economic power there is an enormous incentive for wealthy people who earn their income (in an actual sense, not a tax law menagerie sense) in the US to try to avoid US taxes by living abroad and moving assets, their "home", etc outside of US jurisdiction while still in reality earnin…

> One of the basic benefits is always being able to return to the US. Being inside American borders is very much safer than being anywhere else if/when the next major global military issue arises. It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life. Meanwhile, those developed countries with functioning health care systems that you can return to whenev…

>It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life.

Does it actually?

I assume that disparity is more to do with the populations of impoverished people around this very diverse country that can't compare to smaller European countries that just don't have those populations.

There is no Mississippi in Germany, those populations are in other countries.

If you compare the whole European Union to the US the disparity is much smaller.

>It’s a funny fear, because today, being in the US vs. some other developed country takes about 7-8 years off your life.

I think that is an exaggeration, I can't find that statistic anywhere.

But you have to look at people in your demographic, not the entire country.

The US has the best health care in the world if you can afford it.

Just about anybody can get insurance and set aside the max out of pocket costs to insure themselves and their family, but they will take a considerable hit in quality of life, home size, luxuries, etc. In other countries that health care is paid for with lowered salaries through taxes and quality of life takes a hit anyway.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#38

Post by eloff »

colechristensen wrote: post #28
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single bank in every country that wishes to use USD is in that position today, it is not related to whether they were shown to help in some criminal activity. > US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. Seriously, like what? In how many percent of situations does this ever come up. Sure it's more than >0, but if it is like 1$/person do…

For starters the first $103,900 is tax free if you qualify and are living abroad. What it comes down to is that because of its size and economic power there is an enormous incentive for wealthy people who earn their income (in an actual sense, not a tax law menagerie sense) in the US to try to avoid US taxes by living abroad and moving assets, their "home", etc outside of US jurisdiction while still in reality earnin…

No, the US is likely to be the other side of whatever the next major conflict is. If it's a major conflict it will likely end in nuclear war, even if it doesn't start that way. The US is the last place you want to be. Australia, New Zealand, or South America would be much safer, and the climate still amenable to growing food during the nuclear winter. In Australia and New Zealand the land area to population is also very high, which helps in a famine situation.

I like to think (hope? Dream?) That there won't be any more major conflicts now that we have nuclear weapons. But betting against the stupidity of politicians seems like a risky proposition.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#39

Post by captainpiggies »

colechristensen wrote: post #29
captainpiggies wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss banking history and the process they and their US customers have to go through are entirely unrelated. The US simply created these regulations because for some strange reason the US believes it somehow has the authority to collect every last penny on every single citizen regardless of residence and or if that person gets any value out of having said citizenship. Something the rest of the world obviously doesn’t…

Swiss banks were doing business in the US, setting up offices in the US, and literally counseling American clients on how to export their assets. These were Americans living in America doing business with Swiss banks on American soil in order to avoid taxes. Several banks have been stomped on for this behavior, the "oldest bank in the world" closed as a result and there have been many other actions. If you don't want…

Correlation =/= Causation

There are way bigger fish for the US to fry other than Switzerland. FATCA wasn’t created because of Swiss banks. Claiming otherwise is ignorant.

Re: Switzerland in the age of automatic exchange of banking information

#40

Post by AceJohnny2 »

nradov wrote: post #18
dbrgn wrote: post #9

To me as a Swiss citizen, born in Switzerland, living in Switzerland, it's an impertinence that every time I open a bank account with a Swiss bank I have to fill out at least 1 form with information about my relation to the US, about my travels in the US and whether I might have to pay taxes there. As a side note, the only other country besides the US that collects taxes based on citizenship and not based on residenc…

Swiss banks are in that position today because some of them engaged in criminal conspiracies to help US customers commit tax fraud. If they want to participate in the US financial system then they have to play by US rules. US citizens residing in other countries can still receive some services and protection from the US federal government. So it's completely fair to tax them for that. We can argue about the value of…

> We can argue about the value of those services but clearly it's >0.

From personal experience, I can tell you that (value of expatriate services) - (cost of dealing with US tax system) is a very deep negative value.

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