The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation • Hacker News Board

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#241

Post by goatinaboat » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:21 AM UTC

ppseafield wrote: post #176

ntzm wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather not have a manual for starting a neo-nazi race war archived to be honest

I think it's worth discussing this comment instead of downvoting it. There was a lot of controversy around the copyright expiration of Mein Kampf in Germany a few years ago. The Bavarian government owned the copyright and refused to allow it to be printed. When the copyright expired, annotated versions were released, putting the book in context. There are certain disadvantages that not printing had: making the book m…

Mein Kampf is a unique example in the sense that far, far more harmful books, by any objective measure, have remained freely available. As such it cannot be used as a general template on how to handle such material.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#242

Post by scoutt » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

I'm am glad the Archive exists and also a frequent user. The only thing that gets me thinking is that at some point in the future, they will own the past. That is, if it wasn't in the archive then it didn't happened (in what content-in-a-webpage regards). And by owning the past they would be able to manipulate it (probably).

One can say the same thing about Wikipedia, but there are other encyclopedias that can be used to check a certain fact.

Do we need an archive of the Internet Archive?

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#243

Post by La1n » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:36 AM UTC

tastroder wrote: post #239

dragonwriter wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no public-interest benefit in hate screeds. Sure there is. If you can't read Mein Kampf , you can't recognize when a new work is following in its footprints.

> If you can't read Mein Kampf, you can't recognize when a new work is following in its footprints. Really don't know how to make this sound nicer but... German here, we have schools. Reading the source material of a genocidal maniac would have added zero value to my education. For some reason it's weird to see this free speech is a cure-all angle repeated time and again in a forum with US focus given the current adm…

Exactly, people act like restricting access (or in this case voluntarily not storing something) will also remove all the surrounding information about it. I didn't need to read pro-slavery propaganda to know slavery is bad, and I didn't need to read every type of propaganda to know or learn how propaganda works.

Edit: Also this thread is full of people (including me to be fair) not providing any sources to whatever they feel is true.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#244

Post by concordDance » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:39 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #215

smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t fault them for obeying a court order. I just hope the beheading videos are archived somewhere so future generations won’t believe we were just that offended by brown skin.

This wasn't beheading video. It was verbal propaganda. Their monthly magazine, more or less.

That's a shame.

I've often wanted to know what viewpoints enemies of state have so I can get another opinion on things. Particularly a world-view as different to mine as ISIS would have been interesting. :(

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#245

Post by mirimir » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:41 AM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #238

mirimir wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, "Triumph Of The Will".[0] 0) https://archive.org/details/TriumphOfTheWillgermanTriumphDes...

"Triumph of the Will and the Cinematic Language of Propaganda" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ1Qm1Z_D7w The propaganda was incredibly successful. To this day "Triumph of the Will" continues to be used as a reference point for the mental construct of the Nazi regime. The modern understanding of the Nazis is deeply informed by a propaganda film produced by the Nazis for the explicit purpose of creating that mental c…

Not just that. There's a long sequence on life in the young men's camp. The feeling is a lot like Woodstock. Or maybe a mix of summer camp and an idyllic version of basic training.

And the light show! Camp fires and torchlight! Huge insignia, and huge billowing banners. Very moving.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#246

Post by concordDance » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:42 AM UTC

tastroder wrote: post #237

raxxorrax wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Germany is no good role model when it comes to content restrictions, since too many measures are based on fear or shame, while adherence to arbitrary content rules isn't examined critically. That is one factor why I believe Germany to be more likely to succumb to fascism again compared to the US for example. Luckily, the 21st century doesn't allow for much content control anymore. Mein Kampf can reasonably fa…

> That is one factor why I believe Germany to be more likely to succumb to fascism again compared to the US for example. Citation needed? From the view of my filter bubble it looks like white supremacy and it's racist ideologies seem to be on an alarming rise in both countries regardless of their approach on free speech.

Rant: Racist idealogies wouldn't be on the rise if it were easy to Google actual arguments against racism, but despite trying various search terms Google keeps failing. >:(

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#247

Post by mirimir » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:43 AM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #244

mirimir wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't beheading video. It was verbal propaganda. Their monthly magazine, more or less.

That's a shame. I've often wanted to know what viewpoints enemies of state have so I can get another opinion on things. Particularly a world-view as different to mine as ISIS would have been interesting. :(

See https://jihadology.net/

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#248

Post by concordDance » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:47 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #168

food_eater wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It's currently in-vogue to be scared of and hate nazi's. For some reason though that sentiment never took root against communists. It did, there was plenty of paranoia and hatred of communists during the Cold War days, we just never fought an actual war against communists (edit: except in Vietnam and Korea, I forgot that for some reason...) Of course, a lot of that Red Scare stuff was just a thin coat of patriotic…

I dislike use of "nazi" as I can't tell whether you just mean white nationalist, eugenics promoting, expansionist, anti-democratic or anti-jewish views (or all of the above).

Next time could you indicate which things you are including in your definition the first time you use the word? It will also help prove you aren't just using "nazi" for its negative affect.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#249

Post by collyw » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:49 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #215

smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t fault them for obeying a court order. I just hope the beheading videos are archived somewhere so future generations won’t believe we were just that offended by brown skin.

This wasn't beheading video. It was verbal propaganda. Their monthly magazine, more or less.

I am curious to see what ISIS propaganda is like, but I am scared to dig about looking for it for fear of being put on a watch list.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#250

Post by afiori » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:50 AM UTC

TomMckenny wrote: post #100

afiori wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, you can always find an obscure website "proving" climate change is a hoax. But according to the assumption then you check their own sources and their validity. Also while the "climate change is an hoax" is little more than a conspiracy theory in terms of validity, some prediction have been proven false. All together climate change is an undeniable truth, singularly each prediction is far from undeniabl…

That main witness "bombshell" is not remotely what is written in the NYT. It is what Fox news _says_ the NYT wrote knowing the audience will never actually read the article. And is in fact a rather blatant example of undermining reality based media as an "enemy of the people" >Considering the frequency of retraction What, even approximately, is the rate of retraction? And more generally, note the irony that if honest…

> What, even approximately, is the rate of retraction?

On RussiaGate? pretty high. On the Covington MAGA-wearing kids? A lawsuit. But naked numbers means nothing. We agree that trump tweets a lot of nonsense, if he were to add 10 time more tweets that were true it would not dilute the nonsense of the others.

> That main witness "bombshell" is not remotely what is written in the NYT. It is what Fox news _says_ the NYT

I read the NYT article (do not remember the exact wording, but I have never opened the fox news one) and the clear picture was that they were reporting the content of a book and that the book was reporting that as facts; what I criticize in the NYT article is the omission about the witness apparently not remembering the story (an omission they had to correct indeed).

(As a philosophical aside: I do not want to convince you that "the mainstream media lies", that is not a proposition to me, in the sense that I do not know What a proof or disproof looks like. What I am trying to do is to point out the viewpoint of your outgroup.)