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The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

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Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#211

Post by mirimir »

dragonwriter wrote: post #182
food_eater wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It's currently in-vogue to be scared of and hate nazi's. For some reason though that sentiment never took root against communists. Er, what now? It really took root against communists (and socialists), even those of both of the those groups that weren't Leninists, in the US almost immediately after the Russian Revolution and only started to fade a bit after the fall of the Soviet Union 70+ years later, and even now…

Indeed. Remember the McCarthy hearings?

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#212

Post by smudgymcscmudge »

mirimir wrote: post #204
devmunchies wrote: post #104

> But Mr Graham argued that simply removing false information or offensive content isn’t necessarily the answer. Hateful material need not remain publicly available, he said, but certain researchers and politicians should be able to study it. They're planting the seed and seeing how the public reacts. This is ridiculous! Mark something "controversial", "possibly fake", but don't memory-hole us. An archive only archiv…

Now that I think about it, I lost faith in the Internet Archive some years ago. During the rise of ISIS (or whatever we're calling it now) I occasionally came across Internet Archive links for their English publications. But whenever I clicked, I found that stuff had been taken down. And I'm pretty sure that the publishers hadn't requested it.

I won’t fault them for obeying a court order. I just hope the beheading videos are archived somewhere so future generations won’t believe we were just that offended by brown skin.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#213

Post by ent101 »

pishpash wrote: post #131
ent101 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, the data doesn't seem to be deleted -- it only becomes inaccessible once the site opts out; all the data can come back if the site changes its mind.

Does it also continue to archive while the 'do not archive' flag is on?

I'm not sure, but I do think they follow the standard guidelines, meaning they won't archive if the flag is on. This can be verified by going through the Heritrix crawler's source code.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#214

Post by TomMckenny »

weberc2 wrote: post #173
TomMckenny wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All fact checking is opposed by the far-right worldwide (and is in fact a threat). Justification for opposing it is sought after the opinion has been formed. And since denouncing facts themselves doesn't work in all societies yet, opposition requires quite a bit of mental gymnastics and fallacious reasoning like "all sides lie" or, with no justification, "fact checkers strategically target lies that serve my politica…

Be wary of the "the far right does it therefore everyone else who does it is far right" fallacy. In particular, when a fact checker says that they need to do something about , _even though I personally dislike those political movements_, I know that they're probably biased.

What one fact checker says (or is rumored to have said) does not invalidate fact checking by everyone everywhere. In fact it does not even alter whether any given statement is true or false.

But incredibly there are those who very comfortably dismiss things they acknowledge as true solely because they dislike the politics of the source. That overlooking falsehoods is acceptable in the scope of a larger political cause. That those who point them out too zealously are political enemies.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#215

Post by mirimir »

smudgymcscmudge wrote: post #212
mirimir wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that I think about it, I lost faith in the Internet Archive some years ago. During the rise of ISIS (or whatever we're calling it now) I occasionally came across Internet Archive links for their English publications. But whenever I clicked, I found that stuff had been taken down. And I'm pretty sure that the publishers hadn't requested it.

I won’t fault them for obeying a court order. I just hope the beheading videos are archived somewhere so future generations won’t believe we were just that offended by brown skin.

This wasn't beheading video. It was verbal propaganda. Their monthly magazine, more or less.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#216

Post by dragonwriter »

mirimir wrote: post #209
dragonwriter wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascism was pretty much never considered socialist by much of anyone outside of the Nazi flavor trying to coopt the label, and the American Right engaging in revisionism in the last couple decades.

Well, it's "socialist" in the sense that the society (OK, the state, but whatever) matters far more than the individual. But I do agree that they used the term to confuse people. Amusing factoid: Hitler honed his public speaking skills while working as a government mole in the socialist party.

> Well, it's "socialist" in the sense that the society (OK, the state, but whatever) matters far more than the individual.

It's corporatist, but not socialist (you can probably make an argument that non-libertarian socialism is also corporatist, but not vice versa.)

But, yeah, the cult of manichean capitalism tends to use “socialism” as the generic label for “opposed to capitalism”.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#217

Post by mirimir »

dragonwriter wrote: post #216
mirimir wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's "socialist" in the sense that the society (OK, the state, but whatever) matters far more than the individual. But I do agree that they used the term to confuse people. Amusing factoid: Hitler honed his public speaking skills while working as a government mole in the socialist party.

> Well, it's "socialist" in the sense that the society (OK, the state, but whatever) matters far more than the individual. It's corporatist, but not socialist (you can probably make an argument that non-libertarian socialism is also corporatist, but not vice versa.) But, yeah, the cult of manichean capitalism tends to use “socialism” as the generic label for “opposed to capitalism”.

Good point. Corporatist, in that the state is basically a "bundle" (fasces, from which we also get fascia) of corporations.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#218

Post by BeetleB »

abacadaba wrote: post #200
RobertRoberts wrote: post #111

9/11 in the Archive. Go look at all the news websites on September 10th, 2001... and back about a month or two. All empty until 9/11.

Na I remember pretty well, there was literally nothing in the news for months before that, top story was shark attacks or something.

The Witchhunt of Gary Condit, if you really don't remember.

My roommate would get upset every time they brought him up on the news - he was sick of hearing about him (never any actual findings or updates - just more and more speculation).

I remember a few days after Sept 11, I suggested my friend call the news channels and demand to hear an update on Gary Condit.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#219

Post by StavrosK »

OrgNet wrote: post #181
eukaryote31 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike IP addresses where you get exponentially more of them per unit cost (i.e size), storage space costs 1 bit per bit.

I don't think that you understand what I said... I don't mean that IP addresses have anything to do with physical space. I only mean it in the sense that IPv6 supposedly solved a problem and we need the same thing to happen to storage space.

He understands perfectly, it's theoretically impossible to get infinite storage in finite amounts of matter.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#220

Post by BeetleB »

taborj wrote: post #5

They mention archiving a bunch of Trump stuff, but are they just focusing on conservatives? There's a bunch of misinformation on both sides, and if they're really after the truth, they should be paying the same amount of time and attention to both right and left. Somewhat related: it's sad but perhaps not inevitable that everyone basically has to do their own research to find out what's actually going on. These days,…

>There's a bunch of misinformation on both sides, and if they're really after the truth, they should be paying the same amount of time and attention to both right and left.

Why the same amount? Shouldn't the amount of time be in proportion to the misinformation originating from each side?

> Somewhat related: it's sad but perhaps not inevitable that everyone basically has to do their own research to find out what's actually going on. These days, I don't trust any one source;

I hale from the pre-Internet era. I can't think of any day where trusting one source was a good idea. The Internet (and online ads) has just made it easier to dig deeper.

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