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United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

justice.gov

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Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#231

Post by Swizec »

Something that never made sense to me in the Snowden case is how any of this works in face of whistleblower protection laws in USA.

According to Wikipedia, the US offers these legal protections:

> Whistleblower protection laws and regulations guarantee freedom of speech for workers and contractors in certain situations. Whistleblowers are protected from retaliation for disclosure of information which the employee or applicant reasonably believes evidences a violation of any law, rule, or regulation, or gross mismanagement, a gross waste of funds, an abuse of authority, or a substantial and specific danger to public health or safety.

But when Snowden blew the whistle on 3-letter agencies, all that goes out the window? Does the government not follow its own laws?

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#232

Post by andrei_says_ »

bb88 wrote: post #32
HashThis wrote: post #21

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

Rightly or wrongly, that is not a part of the SF86 form when one applies for a clearance. The SF86 form offers no leeway for moral objections. So in such a scenario, it would be better to not submit the SF86 form in the first place. The only people I'm aware of that can publish classified information without punishment are journalists.

In an interview, Snowden mentioned that he also took an oath to uphold the constitution. So he had a choice between the form and the oath.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#233

Post by maxlybbert »

geggam wrote: post #60
HashThis wrote: post #21

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

Given the fact the constitution binds the govt and details what rights the govt has I am not sure how the govt has a leg to stand on.

Snowden got a job handling classified material. The government only trusted him to handle that material because he signed various contracts that said he would keep the material secret and that he would allow the NSA to read anything he wanted to publish so they could be sure he didn’t accidentally leak something (and, potentially, so they could plan for damage control).

This lawsuit is not actually about publishing classified material, but about not giving the NSA a chance to read his book before it was published. Since that’s a contract interpretation issue, and since there’s a law specifically making this contract legal, and since it’s a civil lawsuit (e.g., he can’t go to jail because of this particular lawsuit), I believe the government has a very strong leg to stand on.

I’m not saying this is what the law should allow. But I don’t expect the court to rule this law unconstitutional.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#234

Post by ianhawes »

henryfjordan wrote: post #197
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #182

This may actually be good news. Somebody might have determined that it's not worth the political cost to prosecute him publicly, so they'll press civil charges, slowly make the criminal stuff go away, then it becomes a "normal" lawsuit instead of such a hot potato. (I am freely speculating here)

Lol, Snowden can't be prosecuted publicly because he's hanging out in Russia. If he got on a plane back to the US today he'd be in front of judge for a plea hearing tomorrow. This is the exact opposite of what you suggest. Someone has such a motivation for "justice" and can't put him in jail, so they want to deprive him of the profits for his book.

Agreed, there is most likely a sealed federal indictment in his name. The part that isn't accurate is that he will almost certainly be held without bail. The government will argue he is a flight risk, and the judge will certainly agree - he will be in jail until his trial.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#235

Post by djsumdog »

I think there is reason to believe that Snowden is a blackops story. A guy making six figures and working remotely in Hawaii as an NSA contractor, somehow extracts tons of critical data and then one day decides he has a moral compass and gives it to reporters at The Guardian and Der Spegiel? Then he goes and hangs out in Russia and his smokin hot girlfriend says she wants to go be with him.

We should not be surprised that in 30 years, declassified documents show this whole thing was orchestrated to show Americans don't actually care at all about domestic spying.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#236

Post by austinheap »

pier25 wrote: post #184
HashThis wrote: post #21

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

It's worse than that. What gives the NSA the right to capture private data from other countries?

Any country with resources is doing it to allies and adversaries alike and selective outrage requires top-shelf cherry picking. Everything is tapped everywhere.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#237

Post by [deleted] »

djsumdog wrote: post #235

I think there is reason to believe that Snowden is a blackops story. A guy making six figures and working remotely in Hawaii as an NSA contractor, somehow extracts tons of critical data and then one day decides he has a moral compass and gives it to reporters at The Guardian and Der Spegiel? Then he goes and hangs out in Russia and his smokin hot girlfriend says she wants to go be with him. We should not be surprised…

[deleted]

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#238

Post by [deleted] »

djsumdog wrote: post #235

I think there is reason to believe that Snowden is a blackops story. A guy making six figures and working remotely in Hawaii as an NSA contractor, somehow extracts tons of critical data and then one day decides he has a moral compass and gives it to reporters at The Guardian and Der Spegiel? Then he goes and hangs out in Russia and his smokin hot girlfriend says she wants to go be with him. We should not be surprised…

[deleted]

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#239

Post by austinheap »

decebalus1 wrote: post #180
jjtheblunt wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the right to privacy, in the US constitution, spelled out? [ asking because i don't know ]

Who said anything about privacy? This is about the 4th amendment.

Which court ruled it applies here?

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#240

Post by henryfjordan »

Swizec wrote: post #231

Something that never made sense to me in the Snowden case is how any of this works in face of whistleblower protection laws in USA. According to Wikipedia, the US offers these legal protections: > Whistleblower protection laws and regulations guarantee freedom of speech for workers and contractors in certain situations. Whistleblowers are protected from retaliation for disclosure of information which the employee or…

In Snowden's case, he was a contractor and the specific whistleblower law covering the NSA did not apply to him.
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