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Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

thenewdaily.com.au

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Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#141

Post by nwah1 »

bscphil wrote: post #130
jankiehodgpodge wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4G router, works exactly the same as what you have now.

Well, right, that's what I would have assumed. But parent said the reason consumers like the idea of wireless is that you don't need a modem or router, that's what I found confusing about it.

There's already a lot of 4G enabled notebooks and tablets, and basically all phones. I could easily see that eating 80% of the market. 60% or more of web traffic is already on mobile devices, so the only question is whether 5G will become a standard feature for new notebooks.

Sure, you could buy a 4G/5G router, but for average consumers that may be a thing of the past. At least, that seems to be the direction that every major player in every relevant industry is gearing up for.

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#142

Post by crispinb »

manicdee wrote: post #99
zizee wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the part that is questionable: > our far-right government, which loathes and fears any technology more recent than coal & witch burning.

Let sleeping dogs lie, is my advice here.

Yes, let's do that please. The tone wasn't right for HN.

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#143

Post by devnulloverflow »

wmf wrote: post #71
djsumdog wrote: post #45

I wish they wouldn't just use '4G' and '5G' as if they were one concrete thing. List the actual individual protocols. Sprint use to offer 4G in the United States that was Wi-Max based, but now almost all 4G is LTE. In Australia there was a Wi-Max provider (Vivi Wireless) but on a different frequency than the US and only via hot-spots (no phone support, that I know of). Is 4G for all these reports LTE? What exactly is…

AFAIK NR is the only 5G protocol. Exposing protocol details to consumers when those details do not correlate with performance is likely to just cause confusion.

But the 4G, 5G monikers don't correlate either.

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#144

Post by jsjohnst »

wmf wrote: post #136
jsjohnst wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, light travels at 186 miles per millisecond, but virtually nothing we have can actually transfer a single packet anywhere near light speed. Take two high end expensive network cards with fiber SFP+ connectors and connect them with just 1 meter of cable, and I very highly doubt you’ll get a ping time of under 0.1ms. And that’s just 1 meter! If speed of light was the limiting factor, that should be down in the…

I hate to be that guy but I have done that test and the latency is under 30 us or 0.03 ms.

I meant to say 0.01ms :(

(Hence why my later part of the comment references “nanosecond region”)

Thanks for calling it out!

Edit:

To say my original post another way, about the fastest I’ve ever seen for a ping time is ten microseconds over a one meter fiber optic cable. That’s 3,000x slower than the speed of light. Fiber optic cable is far more efficient than a Point-To-Multipoint radio which is in a noisy environment (aka cellular), so to think you’ll get within 2 orders of magnitude using 5G vs the best fiber speeds I’ve seen seems crazy to me.

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#145

Post by fertimb_ »

rosege wrote: post #121
fertibm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiber would never be available in every home, it would have always been limited to new estates and inner city areas, which funnily enough is no change over how things were before the nbn. Before the nbn, new estates were supplied with private fiber. Now they get nbn, which will be sold in the future and be private again.... all that changed was billions of dollars were stolen by the political class.

Fibre was going to be rolled out to 93% of the population - so very remote people would have been on satellie but that would have been it.

No, that was their made up promise to fool people who couldn't research the logistics themselves, that is not what was going to happen. Name another country in the entire world where this has happened with similar population density. You can't, because no such country exists. If that actually happened, and it was completed today, Australia would have the world's fastest internet, ahead of all of the countries with extremely dense population such as Taiwan. Such an idea is absurd, but people on the left will never admit it and just claim that is was obviously going to happen.

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#146

Post by flukus »

fertimb_ wrote: post #145
rosege wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fibre was going to be rolled out to 93% of the population - so very remote people would have been on satellie but that would have been it.

No, that was their made up promise to fool people who couldn't research the logistics themselves, that is not what was going to happen. Name another country in the entire world where this has happened with similar population density. You can't, because no such country exists. If that actually happened, and it was completed today, Australia would have the world's fastest internet, ahead of all of the countries with ex…

Fiber isn't rolled out in a uniform grid pattern across the country, so population density is irrelevant.

We are one of the most urbanized countries in the world, more so than many who have rolled out fiber.

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#147

Post by crispinb »

fertimb_ wrote: post #145
rosege wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fibre was going to be rolled out to 93% of the population - so very remote people would have been on satellie but that would have been it.

No, that was their made up promise to fool people who couldn't research the logistics themselves, that is not what was going to happen. Name another country in the entire world where this has happened with similar population density. You can't, because no such country exists. If that actually happened, and it was completed today, Australia would have the world's fastest internet, ahead of all of the countries with ex…

Arrant nonsense. It was a specific plan, budgeted for, with people in government and industry I knew at the time working on it. Even bloody Malcolm Turnbull was bullish about it (he was on the board of a company I worked for in Brisbane) until he turned. It was going to happen but was scotched for purely political reasons by a party that had always opposed public provision.

Big projects, govenment & commercial alike often fail. The real NBN certainly might have. But to make up out of a complete vacuum that it was some sort of deliberate con is just another barmy conspiracy theory.

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#148

Post by fertibm__ »

crispinb wrote: post #147
fertimb_ wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that was their made up promise to fool people who couldn't research the logistics themselves, that is not what was going to happen. Name another country in the entire world where this has happened with similar population density. You can't, because no such country exists. If that actually happened, and it was completed today, Australia would have the world's fastest internet, ahead of all of the countries with ex…

Arrant nonsense. It was a specific plan, budgeted for, with people in government and industry I knew at the time working on it. Even bloody Malcolm Turnbull was bullish about it (he was on the board of a company I worked for in Brisbane) until he turned. It was going to happen but was scotched for purely political reasons by a party that had always opposed public provision. Big projects, govenment & commercial alike…

>It was a specific plan, budgeted for I like how you call what I said "arrant nonsense". Such a harsh response must have been followed up by some irrefutable facts for justification. Instead, your argument is "it was budgeted for". This level of nativity is complete lack of knowledge of planning and budgeting and forecasting models shouldn't be coupled with your big boy harsh words.

Lets see, Kevin Rudd said it would cost $15 billion. The total cost at the moment seems to be $51 billion. So your conspiracy theory is that the crappier NBN we got which required less work cost $36 billion more than the one you are saying was budgeted for?

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#149

Post by paranoidrobot »

fertibm__ wrote: post #148
crispinb wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrant nonsense. It was a specific plan, budgeted for, with people in government and industry I knew at the time working on it. Even bloody Malcolm Turnbull was bullish about it (he was on the board of a company I worked for in Brisbane) until he turned. It was going to happen but was scotched for purely political reasons by a party that had always opposed public provision. Big projects, govenment & commercial alike…

>It was a specific plan, budgeted for I like how you call what I said "arrant nonsense". Such a harsh response must have been followed up by some irrefutable facts for justification. Instead, your argument is "it was budgeted for". This level of nativity is complete lack of knowledge of planning and budgeting and forecasting models shouldn't be coupled with your big boy harsh words. Lets see, Kevin Rudd said it would…

First, can I ask why you're creating multiple new accounts to comment? It seems very odd.

> Kevin Rudd said it would cost $15 billion.

The first 90% fibre plan was $43b, later revised down to $37.4b of which it was supposed to be $30b of investment from the Federal government. [0]

About $12b of that was in payments to Telstra ($11b) and Optus ($800m) in return for access to lead-in and last-mile conduits/pits, and decommissioning of HFC networks.

That original business plan was revised later after a KPMG study to recommend ~93% fibre, ~4% fixed wireless (LTE variant), and the remaining ~2-3% on two dedicated satellites (new launches).

(Edited to add: Note that this plan included an eventual ROI, where the government would get it's money back - and hence it be zero/low cost. The current plan has no hope of that happening short of selling the entire thing off to Telstra.)

FTTH installations were budgeted at $1500/residence to install, which by the time the Abbott government was coming into power was actually trending closer to $1200 as the workforce was trained up in deploying the gear and became more experienced in dealing with any odd situations.

There is/was a fantastic video of a talk given by someone from NBNCo (I believe Mike Quigly?) at a University where they go over the architectural design decisions, and how the 93% number was arrived at. The video also went over in detail how the fixed-wireless process was to work.

Arguments that remediating conduit and installing new copper is either cheaper or less work to install aren't backed up by evidence, with NBNCo's current cost for FTTC being somewhere over $3000/residence in 2019[1].

Additionally, because there's now FTTP, FTTN, FTTC, HFC, Fixed-Wireless and Satellite - the whole network is harder to manage and maintain. You need a bigger, more widely trained workforce, you have more equipment to maintain, and more vendors to deal with.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_National_Broadb...

[1] https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-cos-actual-cost-per-premi...

Re: Australia’s 4G network is faster than 5G: study

#150

Post by t4ko »

uikoeixueo wrote: post #127
stephen_g wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't go onto FTTP, they will use the Telstra HFC cable and you just get a different modem. Most of the drop-out problems I think are fixed. The less bandwidth and paying more are only due to stupid pricing models from the infrastructure provider (NBN), for anybody who isn't familiar with the system. There's no technical reason for it in 60% of the country. They could upgrade anybody in the FTTP footprint to giga…

I'm in an apartment tower which is vendor locked to Internode (IINet/TPG aren't even available). I'm fortunate that the connection is 100/40/unlimited for $60 AUD, but it still annoys me that I have _no_ options to obtain a static IP whatsoever.

It's not as good as a static IP but you can look into DynDNS providers to have a static way to access your machines from outside. Almost every provider has a free option and it's very easy to setup.
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