100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web • Hacker News Board

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#71

Post by hobofan » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #9

I used to use flattr and thought the concept was sound. Until I saw that most of the creators I wanted to sponsor never bothered to sign up and collect their money. Anyone else have experience with flattr or similar alternatives? I figure with all the "block chain" interest we'd have seen something built on a cryptocurrency allowing "direct" microdonations to a website's "wallet" EDIT: looks like coil is kinda of lik…

Satoshipay[0] has been around for a long time (and many iterations) and is now based on Stellar and from what I've seen pretty simple to integrate for websites.

[0]: https://satoshipay.io

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#72

Post by trust07007707 » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

I see the following models of monetizing content on the web:

1. Gift economy (you give it away, take likes) 2. Goods and Service economy (you charge for it, sufficiently to make a living) 3. Advertising economy (many people want it but not many willing to pay for it) 4. Tipping (not a viable economic model, unless it's made compulsory and a minimum is set in which case it's not tipping)

1 & 2 have been with us since the dawn of human civilization.

3 is a modern invention and to many it is a failed experiment.

Just observations, no answers

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#73

Post by bloopernova » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:44 PM UTC

FreeHugs wrote: post #3

It's crazy, that we still do not have something like "Cash" on the internet. A simple, anonymous way to pay 10 cent or so. To use a website or read an article. That would make the world so much better for indie developers. Currently, an indie dev makes orders of magnitude less money per pageview then Google, Facebook and Co. Because those have all that advertising technology and ecosystem that indie devs don't have.…

There's probably a different cryptocurrency for each user on HN, certainly enough for people to argue over until the end of time.

Perhaps it's as simple as this:

1) Make adding a box to pay a website in your crypto easier than adding google analytics or facebook share links.

2) Make buying small amount of your crypto easier than anyone else's crypto.

3) Give lots of your crypto away to as many folks as possible to put lots of it into circulation.

4) Provide easy ways for people to buy amazon and walmart gift certs with your crypto. (so web site operators can do something with the coins they receive)

Has anyone done step 1 yet?

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#74

Post by manigandham » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:45 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #37

dangrossman wrote: post #32

None of these web monetization efforts address the fact that the pool of [all consumers' discretionary income they'd be willing to spend] is likely a small fraction of the size of [all commercial companies' marketing budgets]. No matter how much you reduce the friction for having people make small tips to websites, there's just significantly less money to go around, so it can never replace advertising revenue. The on…

Alternatively if advertising became significantly less effective companies would spend less money on it. That's the upside of Ad-blocking which could theoretically make a huge impact.

Some banners ads are not all of advertising. You’re affected by numerous channels and mediums that would pick up the slack (and already have) from adblocking on the web.

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#75

Post by bloopernova » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:46 PM UTC

droffel wrote: post #6

FreeHugs wrote: post #3

It's crazy, that we still do not have something like "Cash" on the internet. A simple, anonymous way to pay 10 cent or so. To use a website or read an article. That would make the world so much better for indie developers. Currently, an indie dev makes orders of magnitude less money per pageview then Google, Facebook and Co. Because those have all that advertising technology and ecosystem that indie devs don't have.…

Monero (getmonero.org) has many of the properties of cash on the internet. Definitely more so than Bitcoin. It's surprising how few cryptocurrencies take privacy by default seriously.

I honestly don't know anything about Monero. How does it compare to Stellar, which was recently on HN due to the Keybase airdrop giveaway?

(I hold a whole $40USD in Stellar, I do however think it's a good thing. But I think there's space on the net for more than a couple of cryptocurrencies so I'm curious about Monero)

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#76

Post by ivanhoe » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:51 PM UTC

potta_coffee wrote: post #48

devoply wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web was fine without these commercial companies. Not like their content added a ton of value to the web. The news is mostly propaganda anyhow, belonging to various wealthy parties that want people to pay for their propaganda... If they funded it completely out of pocket, that would be a more honest approach to these "businesses". The other companies like FB, they took bunch of content that belonged to users that…

The web was hands-down better when most content was made by hobbyists without a profit motive. I used to be able to spend countless hours online. Now it's rare for me to stumble across anything worth looking at. Granted, it's easier to search for and find specific information.

Totally, just like so many bands were better young, clubs, beaches and restaurants better before they got popular, etc. Unfortunately it's just something that happens when things get mainstream, you can't reverse the process.

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#77

Post by manigandham » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:51 PM UTC

meerita wrote: post #28

FreeHugs wrote: post #3

It's crazy, that we still do not have something like "Cash" on the internet. A simple, anonymous way to pay 10 cent or so. To use a website or read an article. That would make the world so much better for indie developers. Currently, an indie dev makes orders of magnitude less money per pageview then Google, Facebook and Co. Because those have all that advertising technology and ecosystem that indie devs don't have.…

I think indie developers shouldn't rely on advertising at all. It's like being adventurer and rely on carrots as food for adventure. You need to find the proper food to do adventure. Same with the developers. Indie developers must do software and provide a service or anything that is valued by a consumer. Anything else is just a waste of time.

Having ads doesn’t mean the context has no value. Otherwise why are you visiting any site with ads?

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#78

Post by manigandham » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

FreeHugs wrote: post #10

greycrasan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the service that is free will always be more popular and ultimately win over more users. People have decided that paying with their privacy is better for them. I really wish paying 10 cents to use the service was the norm, but alas I doubt it will ever happen.

Fine. Let Facebook be an order of magnitude more popular then my website. I would still be happy to have 240 million monthly users who pay me 10 cent. Why would I care that FB has 2.4 Billion monthly users and squeezes more then 10cent out of them via ads? That's none of my business.

You can already do whatever you want on your own site, like a paywall instead of ads, so what’s the issue?

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#79

Post by vkou » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

xur17 wrote: post #70

UncleMeat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been dozens of these products. Some have even been supported by Google, Facebook, and Co. Nobody uses them.

Can you give a few examples?

https://contributor.google.com/v/beta

The gp post is correct. When given the option between an ad, adblock, or tipping, people overwhelmingly choose option #1 or #2.

They then complain about ads, if they chose #1, and about adblock naggers, if they chose #2.

And, of course, all three sets of people lose their mind when they run into a paywall.

There is no non-legislative solution to this problem.

Re: 100 million dollars to reshape the economics of the web

#80

Post by bill_rr » Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #32

None of these web monetization efforts address the fact that the pool of [all consumers' discretionary income they'd be willing to spend] is likely a small fraction of the size of [all commercial companies' marketing budgets]. No matter how much you reduce the friction for having people make small tips to websites, there's just significantly less money to go around, so it can never replace advertising revenue. The on…

That first sentence took me a little while to wrap my head around and I don't think it's true or logical. In other words, even if it was true, I don't see why it matters.

I'm building a company that plans to charge people to read things. The reading experience, without ads, is superior. It's worth paying for. That means that an ad free future is possible.