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Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

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Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#91
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Iran bans females from attending sports events and imposes mandatory hijab But would that really be that terrible in the grad scheme of things? Would you not wear a mandatory hat and renounce on sport events if everything else was faily good? This only seems like massive oppression from our privileged western view.

How is being forced to wear specific clothing and being banned from certain areas for no reason other than your gender _not_ massive oppression? It's literally taking away your ability to decide for yourself as a human being. And yes, I'm a privileged westerner, but that doesn't exactly seem relevant.

Would you rather live in a politically and financially unstable country were you are free to do whatever you want. Or were you are forced to wear specific type of clothes but society is wealthy and stable?

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#92

Two months ago I went to a journey called the 'Mongol Rally' which is basically a race when you need to drive from the Czech Republic to Mongolia in a shitty car Because I'm from Israel my team couldn't get into Iran but other teams got into Iran and all of them were extremely surprised. Iranians know how to welcome tourists, they were extremely friendly, the food is delicious, the country is beautiful, and many peop…

Politicians are just that class of criminals we’ve regulated well enough to keep the spotlight on them. Judging an entire nation by the ugliness of its politicians would be short sighted. We, us regular folk, have more in common with each other, with our global neighbours, than we ever will the ruling class. Not every US citizen is a Trump support, and not every Trump supporter is a buffoon. And Australian and UK pol…

That’s not true at all. The people are the ones who elect the politicians, remember? In Bangladesh where I’m from, if you’re an American tourist hanging out in areas full of western expats you might be get the wrong impression. But make no mistake. Outside those pockets, you’re in a country where 1/3 of people think people born into Muslim families should be executed if they leave Islam. 80% of women are beaten by their husbands. Where 22% of women are married by age 15. (On the flip side, many things Americans do would bring great shame to a Bangladeshi family.)

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#93
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure they don't want to give it up for free ! Just like any country Iran want to defend its interests, to play its hand the best it can... And leverage in many countries (now even in Africa) and the nuclear weapon are "trump card" in the game, so they reinforce it for now... They will wait for the next US election and see how they can work something after it

"Iran want to defend it's interests" : well arguably bringing your country to the brink of economic collapse due to American sanctions isn't in Iran's best interests. We will see what the new American president (could be still Trump btw) is gonna do.

Iran is in a tricky situation, with no good solution, but with solution better than others... The country invested a lot in nuclear and to get leverage abroad ; both things are strategic for the country (independently of who rules it) and even more to the current regime. They have nothing to expect from the current US president before election. Especially knowing that US is not ready for a war so far. What happened recently, last act being in Saudi Arabia seems to shows that Iran keep leveling up the stake, to have more bargaining chips for next serious round of negotiation, post US presidential election (even if Trump get reelected, that is a new chapter)

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#94
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it is insane to go with the US demands. US demands are driven by regmin change, not resonable demands. There is NO WAY any Iranian government would simply give up its rocket program, specially when literally every power around you has them. Specially when they don't have an Airforce. Iran has complied and tried to work with the international system on the nuclear question. They have behaved pretty…

It's not just US demands, I don't think Europe is crazy about Iran having ballistic missiles armed with Nuclear warheads either (nor is it crazy about the idea Saudi will have them). Iran is responsible for destabilising oil supplies recently, is 100% responsible for arming Hezbollah and of course extends it's influence to Yemen, Iraq and Syria. Saudi Arabia is doing none of that and doesn't seem to care that much ab…

US Europe and Iran had a deal. USA broke it.

Nobody is crazy about anybody else than themselves having ballistic missile and nuclear war head (which is not yet the case of Iran)

Every country try to build influence outside. Saudi Arabia is more responsible of the situation of Yemen than Iran is. SA supported jihadist group in Syria, support armed group in Libya and Lebanon, have bought some influence in Sudan, Egypt... Pour hundred of million to support quietist salafist... SA builds its influence and defend its interest, like any country.

What Trump is currently asking is a no go for Iranian... Each part is building force to find a new deal, to force a better deal. Sanctions is part of it. Supporting proxy is another.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#95
post #43

Two months ago I went to a journey called the 'Mongol Rally' which is basically a race when you need to drive from the Czech Republic to Mongolia in a shitty car Because I'm from Israel my team couldn't get into Iran but other teams got into Iran and all of them were extremely surprised. Iranians know how to welcome tourists, they were extremely friendly, the food is delicious, the country is beautiful, and many peop…

More I have studied international relations literacy, more surprised I am of how Iran is misrepresented in public. Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. Ayatollahs are very conservative group of politicians who use religion for political control. There is nothing there that can't be explained by normal power politics. They have goals and constraints. Their main goal internationally is to become…

* Regime run directly by religious leaders, which seem to be living in an orthodox style.

* Enforces religious laws on all citizens, and sometimes externally (like the Salman Rushdie case), even when paying a significant price for it.

* Has multiple outsider militia directly swearing loyalty to its leader based on religious connections.

* Repeatedly swears it wants to destroy Israel, and 'Death to America' is a repeated slogan.

'Conclusion:' the leaders don't believe all that stuff.

I think the issue here is that some Westerns that can't believe that anyone actually has different opinions than their modern opinions. Since these people are secular, all religious people are seen as merely engaging in power-play. We can see this attitude often in popular histories...

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#96
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Iran also has churches and synagogues, minorities in the parlament, by far the most empowered womans movement, an actual native republican and liberal intellectual tradition, a liberal, both economic and social elite (even within the regimn) and so on. The population is also far less 'bought in' to these rules and police has a hard time enforcing clothing regulations for example. In terms of religous freedom and…

So you're agreeing with me then? Because I was arguing against > Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. And here you are saying that it's the leadership with all these crazy rules, enforcing them on a perhaps-unwilling populace.

I think the point here is not that much about "moral" arguing for or against them in a very binary way, it is firstly to better understand the situation.

The article and many comments point that there is a big gap between how we imagine Iran, and how Iran is really is.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both Iran and S.A. are radical islamists countries (one could even argue that S.A. is worse). What argument could there possibly be that Iran is “worse” than S.A.? As bad as things like human rights are in Iran, they are far worse in SA. The democracy index ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index ) rates SA a half point lower than Iran, which is fairy significant. Freedom house also rates SA as less free…

Well Iran is anti west (especially anti U.S) and S.A is happy to cooperate with the West as long as it can keep it's current regime. So in western eyes Iran is dangerous and S.A is mostly an ally. This isn't necessarily supposed to be "fair", if Iran doesn't like the current state of affairs it can abandon it's expansionist aspirations and nuclear weapons, stop with the "Death to America" mindset and all sanctions wo…

Iran is anti-USA solely because the USA is anti-Iran. They've made a number of attempts to normalize relations but the USA just keeps going back to tarring Iran as evil before long.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#98
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it is insane to go with the US demands. US demands are driven by regmin change, not resonable demands. There is NO WAY any Iranian government would simply give up its rocket program, specially when literally every power around you has them. Specially when they don't have an Airforce. Iran has complied and tried to work with the international system on the nuclear question. They have behaved pretty…

It's not just US demands, I don't think Europe is crazy about Iran having ballistic missiles armed with Nuclear warheads either (nor is it crazy about the idea Saudi will have them). Iran is responsible for destabilising oil supplies recently, is 100% responsible for arming Hezbollah and of course extends it's influence to Yemen, Iraq and Syria. Saudi Arabia is doing none of that and doesn't seem to care that much ab…

> I don't think Europe is crazy about Iran having ballistic missiles armed with Nuclear warheads either

That just fear mongering. Iran is neither developing missiles that can carry warheads, nor do they have the nuclear material for warheads nor do they have the technology for warheads.

The missles Iran are developing are conventional missiles for mid-range applications. They actual understand that Europe doesn't want them to be able to attack Europe.

In fact Saudi Arabia and pretty much every other country has missiles. In fact Saudi Arabia illigally bought intercontinental missles from China and were not held accountable at all, but Iran is supposed to beg to be allowed even basic missles?

Demanding that Iran can not have missles when everybody else has them is unreasonable.

> Iran is responsible for destabilising oil supplies recently

Iran has 'destabalised' oil supply far less then constant arab and US oil polices. For most of its history Iran was consistant conservative oil producers and they are still.

Its frankly laughable for the West to claim 'Iran' is destabalizing the oil market, given things like Iraq War. Multible massive embargos against countries like Iran, Iraq and so on.

> is 100% responsible for arming Hezbollah

Hezbollah is no longer a pure subsidiary as it was in the past. They are independned power that allied with Iran. They still get some of their important arms from Iran, but to think of Hezbollah as '100% reliant on Iran' is a wrong.

> and of course extends it's influence to Yemen

Iran had no interest in Yemen and had basically no relationship with Houthi. The Houthi took over Yemen before they were really supported by Iran. Only once the Saudis started a full on war against them, did Iran change its policy and started to support the Houthi in order to bleed Saudi Arabia.

Iran didn't cause anything in Yemen and the Houthi are no-where near the same relationship with them as they have with Hezbollah. The Houthis are just a group that is fighting Saudi Arabia for its own reason and Iran using Saudi Arabia bad polices against them.

Its Western and Saudi stupidity that they handed the Houthi to Iran, as the Houthi were actually more or less payed of by the Saudis for a long time and even had good relations with the West.

> Saudi Arabia is doing none of that and doesn't seem to care that much about building an empire of "influence" around the middle east.

Maybe you simply don't pay attention to Middle East politics but that is an absurd statment.

- Saudi Arabia just reasently kidnapped the prime minister of Lebanon.

- The enacted a blockade of Qatar

- The funded the Egyption Military Coup against Muslim Brothers and democracy

- They are fighting a war in Yemen (more agressive then anything Iran has done in 100 years)

- They are fighting a proxy war against UAE in Yemen as well (just for good measure)

- They activly try to change Islam to make it more like their own (Wahhabism) both in the ME and world wide

- They clearly funded very nasty groups in Syria including ISIS (early on) and later groups like Al-Nusra

The list goes on and on ...

> I don't think it's "crazy" to go with U.S demands. it requires letting go of ego and the dream of the shiite revolution and empire I guess, or at least postponing it. It's like saying Kim from North Korea is would be crazy to let go of his crazy regime, how is that crazy?

Iran has already given up pretty much everything that is reasonable yet it has absolutly no effect on the policy that persue.

They have no nuclear weapons program and that has been confirmed by all intellegence services. They don't even demand the full rights they have under the Non-Proliferation Treaty. They signed the extended treaty and then to double reassure the international community the signed the most restrictive nuclear treaty in the history of the IAEA. They observed the signed treaty and that was confirmed over and over again by IAEA. The effect, US didn't release sanction but betrayed the treaty and recreated the sanction. But yet you still demand that Iran changes the way its doing things?

In terms of rocket development they have already, without even a treaty, stopped the program to develop intercontinental missiles.

So yes, Iran is treated incredibly unfairly in the international system specially considering their historical role, practical power and ability to work with the West if their is mutual interst (such as nuclear treaty, fighting ISIS, fighting Taliban and so on) this is incredibly unreasonable and totally hypocritical.

And yes, for the leaders of those countries, simply giving up would be crazy. As most likly they and their famillies would be killed.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#99

Two months ago I went to a journey called the 'Mongol Rally' which is basically a race when you need to drive from the Czech Republic to Mongolia in a shitty car Because I'm from Israel my team couldn't get into Iran but other teams got into Iran and all of them were extremely surprised. Iranians know how to welcome tourists, they were extremely friendly, the food is delicious, the country is beautiful, and many peop…

The problem with Iran is US propaganda against them.

Yes, there are a number of bad illiberal policies they have, but the bad is played up hugely while the good is minimized.

Re: Women make up 54% of new students entering Iranian universities

#100
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Iran also has churches and synagogues, minorities in the parlament, by far the most empowered womans movement, an actual native republican and liberal intellectual tradition, a liberal, both economic and social elite (even within the regimn) and so on. The population is also far less 'bought in' to these rules and police has a hard time enforcing clothing regulations for example. In terms of religous freedom and…

So you're agreeing with me then? Because I was arguing against > Iranian leadership is not crazy group of religious lunatics. And here you are saying that it's the leadership with all these crazy rules, enforcing them on a perhaps-unwilling populace.

Well I wouldn't call them crazy. The are religious, but still conduct stategraft as rationally and pragmatist as anybody else. Even more so.

Their idiology informs their forign policy, but so much is true for all nations.

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