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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

671–680 of 821 posts

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, my friend, is very close to a Godwin point. Let's be careful here.

The original comment is about German attitudes towards the accumulation of power, which are a direct product of their experiences with Nazism. Germans don't want uncontrolled groups accumulating power precisely because it could lead to a situation like Nazi Germany. Once Godwin's law became a meme it outlived its usefulness. Yes, people tend to hyperbolically compare things to the Nazis. But the Nazis were a real thi…

I agree with the rest of your points, but:

Germans don't want uncontrolled groups accumulating power precisely because it could lead to a situation like Nazi Germany

Uh huh. Really. Germans totally hate uncontrollable groups trying to take over Europe?

Please spare me sanctimonious Germans claiming some sort of moral high ground they don't have. In fact from a British perspective it appears Germany has learned nothing from its experiences at all. It's actually quite amazing how desperate they seem to repeat history over and over.

Germany is by far the biggest and staunchest supporter of the EU, which is literally an uncontrollable group accumulating power as fast as possible. It is partly because of hardline EU supporters like Merkel and Macron that both Switzerland and the UK are hurtling towards all out trade war with the rest of Europe, and why UK/EU talks have gone nowhere. The EU is building its own army, its democracy is a sham and it treats its own citizens with contempt, as can be seen in this remarkable blog post by the Commission (it has to be quoted now because the backlash was so huge it got taken down)

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190215/18005841607/eu-co...

The reason the French and German governments hate Libra is threefold:

1. They are very easily manipulated by their local press barons who perceive Facebook and Google as business threats. See the old link taxes that became Article 13 at the EU level.

2. They are institutionally cynical about their own citizens, who they see deep down as basically being stupid sheep. This shines through in their writings (see the link above) but has the more insidious effect that nobody in EU power structures really believes their own country could ever create a Google or a Facebook. So from their perspective, constantly attacking these firms is pure win: it creates an external enemy in a world without many, and these firms are usable as cash machines to keep the EU budget afloat.

3. One way the EU controls its southern member states is by letting pro-EU governments effectively buy votes by running huge deficits, financed by money printing by the ECB. If a country elects an anti-EU government, the ECB threatens to turn off the money supply until they do (this is very visible in Italy).

In other words the EU's power comes at least partly from manipulating the currency supply. This is bad for the typical German citizen who tries to save money, but good for the project of uniting Europe under a dictatorship:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/08/europe-cent...

Germany has recent experience with governments that try to take over Europe and governments that manipulate the money supply for political purposes. Indeed ECB policy is very unpopular with the Bundesbank and German government. But they can't do anything about it because their ideological commitment to EU domination overrules everything else, and the head of the EU Commission controls the ECB.

Ultimately, Germany's experience with hyperinflation, Naziism and the DDR has apparently left it convinced the moral thing to do is support a power structure that's taking over Europe as fast as possible, printing huge sums of money to do so, which is engaged in a power struggle with Britain, and which is run entirely by people who aren't elected.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#672
post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel there is a conflation here. Facebook is free to apply for a banking license in countries they want to operate as a bank in. Facebook shouldn’t be able to circumvent banking over site and regulations by coming in as a technology company with fancy words. The conflation here is Facebook isn’t being blocked form becoming a licensed bank in Germany - correct me if I’m wrong

But they don’t want to become a bank. They want to build a cryptocurrency. There are already hundreds of cryptocurrencies that operate in France and Germany, and the developers do not have to have banking licenses.

[deleted]

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#673
post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even between EU countries? I wouldn't think so, but I'm no expert.

EU internal ones are likely an exception. Not an expert myself, it just consolidated in my mind as a fact from all the books and articles over the years.

EU internal transfers are most likely made by SEPA (Single Euro Payments Area) infrastructure (with European clearing entities) or for large sums by direct communication/deals between the European banks. Why would any US entity be needed for this?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#674
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, its not cash. But generally in banking, cash and cash-like products are equivalent. I think they'll make public the actual investment breakdown. It's different enough from banks because its matched one for one with some asset. It's essentially a passthrough investment. The reason banks are so highly regulated is that they participate in fractional reserve banking where they take in deposits and invest in…

> But generally in banking, cash and cash-like products are equivalent. Except it's not. Well, maybe it is "generally", but fractional reserves in particular are, by definition, central bank money, and only central bank money. So, strictly speaking, cash or central bank deposits. Not bonds, not loans, not equity. Only central bank money. > It's different enough from banks because its matched one for one with some ass…

> Every loan any bank ever makes is matched with some asset.

This was true 200 years ago not anymore. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation#Credit_theory...

Only 3% need to be matched IIRC

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original comment is about German attitudes towards the accumulation of power, which are a direct product of their experiences with Nazism. Germans don't want uncontrolled groups accumulating power precisely because it could lead to a situation like Nazi Germany. Once Godwin's law became a meme it outlived its usefulness. Yes, people tend to hyperbolically compare things to the Nazis. But the Nazis were a real thi…

I agree with the rest of your points, but: Germans don't want uncontrolled groups accumulating power precisely because it could lead to a situation like Nazi Germany Uh huh. Really. Germans totally hate uncontrollable groups trying to take over Europe? Please spare me sanctimonious Germans claiming some sort of moral high ground they don't have. In fact from a British perspective it appears Germany has learned nothin…

Not everyone living in EU hate it as much as you do.

As someone living in smaller country, we now have our voice heard more than before, and other benefits of EU far outweigh the downsides.

> They are institutionally cynical about their own citizens, who they see deep down as basically being stupid sheep

Yeah Trump and Johnson are so much better \s. Every country has politicians like that.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preventing people from preserving their wealth and the fruits of their labor is not liberty. It’s a restriction of liberty. Capital controls have historically been associated with despotic governments. Why shouldn’t I be able to put my wealth where I want ?

Can I invest in Cocaine or LSD? What about enriched uranium?

Organs are good investments these days.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inflation, […] has come to be viewed as inherent to the sovereignty of nations This comment, talking about Germany, the one of the country that has had such a fear of inflation for almost a century, is highly ironic.

Referring to a 'century', interesting. What about Hitler's monetary policy, or the Soviet puppet government of GDR?

The hyperinflation crisis of the Weimar republic was 96 years ago. Then it affected the German monetary policy until 1933, and after 1945.

So yes, 84 years count as «almost a century»

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#678
post #443
post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you (1) employed by the Libra Foundation or Facebook, (2) in possession of a large Libra stake, or (3) duped by the marketing and in possession of a large amount of free time?

1. No. I have a facebook account but I haven't posted in years 2. No. I don't think its available yet. Its not really meant to be a speculative investment since it's backed by a basket of stable currencies. Although it may be like a closed-end mutual fund where the investment could trade below or above net asset value. But I wouldn't recommend speculating on some price increase even if it takes off 3. No, I'm just in…

Did they not lose you as soon as you read "blockchain"?

Their blockchain neither has block nor chain as I seem to recall. If the company is already lying in their whitepaper, what exactly are you expecting from the real thing?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But generally in banking, cash and cash-like products are equivalent. Except it's not. Well, maybe it is "generally", but fractional reserves in particular are, by definition, central bank money, and only central bank money. So, strictly speaking, cash or central bank deposits. Not bonds, not loans, not equity. Only central bank money. > It's different enough from banks because its matched one for one with some ass…

> Every loan any bank ever makes is matched with some asset. This was true 200 years ago not anymore. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation#Credit_theory... Only 3% need to be matched IIRC

Quoting from the section that you linked to:

> When a bank issues a loan of $1000 to a customer, they debit the customer's loan account with $1000 and at the same time they credit the customer's deposit account with $1000, ready for using. The bank now has a new asset of $1000 and a new liability of $1000.

So ... do you have a source that supports your claim rather than mine?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#680
post #559
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Sweden anymore, most of the lunch places in Gothenburg where I live don't allow payment by cache anymore. If you have money but not digital, you will go hungry nowadays.

This would never fly in Switzerland. You need to accept Swiss Franc Banknotes of any denomination as settlement for any monetary debt (this includes a purchase of a 1.- stick of gum paid for with a CHF 1000 Bill. there will be some arguing required for that one in practice, but the law is clear).

Wrong.

The relevant law (art. 3 WZG[0]) requires persons to accept all banknotes (and up to 100 coins per transaction) as payment, but this only applies after a contract has been formed. It's perfectly legal for any store to indicate to customers that it will not accept large-denomination notes or cards[1]. If the customer is not willing or capable to pay using the accepted means of payment, no contract is formed, and the chewing gum remains with the store.

[0] https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classified-compilation/19994336/...

[1] https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassensturz-espresso/geschaefte...

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