Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

641–650 of 821 posts

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#641

Post by insulanus »

bko wrote: post #451
jayd16 wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't sound like a full reserve though as its not 100% cash. It says right there that its partially invested in risky assets. Whether they're low risk is just an opinion. But even assuming it was a full reserve, I don't think its fundamentally different enough to be allowed to skirt the existing laws.

Fair point, its not cash. But generally in banking, cash and cash-like products are equivalent. I think they'll make public the actual investment breakdown. It's different enough from banks because its matched one for one with some asset. It's essentially a passthrough investment. The reason banks are so highly regulated is that they participate in fractional reserve banking where they take in deposits and invest in…

> Should Starbucks be regulated as a bank because they let you prepay for a cup of coffee?

Yes. Including how the funds in the pre-paid card are managed and invested, and certainly including all the rules about when the user is allowed to reclaim their money.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#642

Post by smnrchrds »

jml7c5 wrote: post #309
spoonie wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has free “Interac E-transfers” that you can send to an email address or mobile phone number.

Historically most banks have charged $1-$2 for an e-transfer (often with a limited number of free transfers per month, or a different type of chequing account one can sign up for to get free transfers), though it seems prices have been dropping in the past few years. Apparently the Bank of Montreal removed e-transfer fees on personal accounts a year or two ago. So there's definitely still overhead that can make small…

CIBC has done the same. TD charges only $0.50 on the most basic plan and it is free on other plans. Simplii (née PC Financial) has always had free Interac e-Transfers. Interac fees have vanished or are vanishing for most people. The daily and weekly maximums are still an issue though ($3k and $10k at most banks usually).

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#643

Post by doomjunky »

rohan_shah wrote: post #631

There is a relatively low understanding among the public of how money is created and how the economy expands in today's modern economy after 1971 Gold standard deviation. If some part of the monetary system is taken over by something that is not money, it is almost impossible to be able to control the amount of money in circulation or inflation or the need for new government money will be uncalculatable. I can not co…

One key difference between a government issued currency and a distributed cryptocurrency is that the former is based on a promise and the latter is based on trust.

A government issued currency is based on the promise [1] given by a state that this money must be accepted by everybody else. Everyone can enforce his rights by law.

A distributed cryptocurrency is based on trust given mutually by the users. The trust relays on the circumstance that no significant number of participants will abandon their precious investment may it be acquired through mining or purchasing of coins.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promissory_note

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#644

Post by insulanus »

lacker wrote: post #377
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

This is a very good description of your argument. It may seem like an unfair stance - I'll try to show why it might not be a crazy position to take.

Let's just use Bitcoin vs. Libra, because bitcoin is much easier to type than cryptocurrency.

You know, instead of typing up a list of the pros and cons of allowing your citizens to use bitcoin vs. libra, I'll just talk about the underlying premise.

I think that as a government, you don't want to lose control of the money supply. That includes:

* How the money is used * Inflation * (And unfortunately, nowadays) tracking the money.

Looking at this from the point of view of a government, it seems pretty dangerous to put all those controls in the hands of a company.

Personally, I would be against this decision for any company, not matter how well liked.

Situations change, and then the powerful can change the rules.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#645

Post by pvorb »

auslander wrote: post #617
black_puppydog wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is exactly why you can't risk to have anything even remotely approaching a monopoly in any part of the systems involved in making transactions. Which is why I (also as a German) am very happy that we have a competitive (read: better in literally every way) alternative to credit cards, plus a strong cash culture. Oh and for completeness' sake: if paypal (and libra for that matter) are not regulated according to…

> you can't risk to have anything even remotely approaching a monopoly in any part of the systems involved in making transactions. AFAIK US is a monopoly for international money transfer. You just cannot bypass a US intermediary bank and US Dollar conversion.

Even between EU countries? I wouldn't think so, but I'm no expert.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#646

Post by ngcc_hk »

lacker wrote: post #614
zaphirplane wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel there is a conflation here. Facebook is free to apply for a banking license in countries they want to operate as a bank in. Facebook shouldn’t be able to circumvent banking over site and regulations by coming in as a technology company with fancy words. The conflation here is Facebook isn’t being blocked form becoming a licensed bank in Germany - correct me if I’m wrong

But they don’t want to become a bank. They want to build a cryptocurrency. There are already hundreds of cryptocurrencies that operate in France and Germany, and the developers do not have to have banking licenses.

I have the same question in my first reaction. But then other than some bank owned one, they are not controlled by anyone. Can you access and exchange libra without Facebook account or banned Facebook account

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#647

Post by martinbooth »

ngcc_hk wrote: post #646
lacker wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they don’t want to become a bank. They want to build a cryptocurrency. There are already hundreds of cryptocurrencies that operate in France and Germany, and the developers do not have to have banking licenses.

I have the same question in my first reaction. But then other than some bank owned one, they are not controlled by anyone. Can you access and exchange libra without Facebook account or banned Facebook account

I'm pretty sure you can. They're building a wallet, but it's not the only one. It's also separate to the rest of Facebook but likely would integrate with it well

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#648

Post by seppin »

lacker wrote: post #377
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

The strange part to me is just that there are already hundreds of crypto currencies available in Germany. When the government says that yes, these hundreds of currencies are fine, but Facebook can’t create one, then it just seems like the policy is anti-Facebook for the sake of being anti-Facebook.

Do those crypto currencies have the ability to pound 80% of German citizens with adds employing them to adopt their currency everyday?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#649

Post by drewm1980 »

auslander wrote: post #617
black_puppydog wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is exactly why you can't risk to have anything even remotely approaching a monopoly in any part of the systems involved in making transactions. Which is why I (also as a German) am very happy that we have a competitive (read: better in literally every way) alternative to credit cards, plus a strong cash culture. Oh and for completeness' sake: if paypal (and libra for that matter) are not regulated according to…

> you can't risk to have anything even remotely approaching a monopoly in any part of the systems involved in making transactions. AFAIK US is a monopoly for international money transfer. You just cannot bypass a US intermediary bank and US Dollar conversion.

International bank transfers within europe most certainly do not go through USD. If you want to send money to/from Europe to USA without a conversion, it is also possible, but you need a bank account in the currency you want to transfer on both sides.
Post reply on HN