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What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

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Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#161
post #58

I've been waiting for Warcraft 4 for 15 years now (can't believe it's been that long!). Warcraft III/Frozen throne are quite simply the best games that I've ever played, none have ever come close. I'd give honourable mention to Age of Empires/Rise of Nations. I think it was killed due to the success of World of Warcraft.

They are releasing a remaster of Warcraft 3, no?

I remember having fun with WC3 so I'll probably give it a try.

Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#162

Late to the party, but worth throwing the browser rebuild of tiberium wars out there. - https://www.adityaravishankar.com/projects/games/command-and...

Tiberian Dawn, not Tiberium Wars. TW is CNC3 and in 3D, TD is the very first one.

For a minute I got excited...

Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the casuals that liked to pvp got driven out by the experts and tried to start again in a new game. I find this to be a really interesting point. Many people would ask why they are playing a PvP game in the first place, if they're not interested in competing. I think it makes a lot of sense though, because they're not actually all that interested in playing against players. They just want more of a human-like chall…

A friend and I used to keep in touch by playing RTS Vs the AI while chatting over the mike. The AI in most games is utterly banal and predictible, and as soon as you go past the easy or medium settings it cheats ruthlessly. Of the big recent ones (StarCraft 2, Company of Heroes 2), it's been a very disappointing experience. For SC2, it just keeps rushing you, so you end up turtling until the AI runs out of resources.…

This. My personal favorite game for co-op vs the AI was RUSE - they had several different AI profiles that tended towards certain strategies you could specify, or it would choose at random. However, it really did respond to what units you built and what strategies you chose, building bunkers against a rush and such, or building a ton of anti-tank weapons if it saw you had tanks.

This meant that subterfuge and concealing your intentions was legitimately a huge part of the strategy - if you intentionally let the AI see a lot of a certain kind of unit and then build a different kind of strategy, you'd often see success, but because of the way the AI strategised it could sometimes meet you head on with an unexpected surge because it briefly saw you building up from an unspotted recon unit hiding somewhere.

Ultimately it is relatively easy to defeat with a little experience, but I still several years later occasionally boot it up with a friend to try and beat the hard AI 2v4 - we've only managed a handful of times, and the experience of slowly being whittled down back to back is a great experience to have in a friendship

Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#164
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the core series focused too heavily on maximizing the experience for esports, and that spoiled the genre for the mid-range gamers that were its bread and butter. Out of curiosity, in what ways in particular did they do this?

Personally, I felt this way about SC2 as compared to SC1. I think one of the largest changes I noticed was an increase in the hardness of counters as well as an increase in the APM necessary to properly wield certain units. For the first point, in SC1, if I had suboptimal army composition against my opponent, I would likely lose any battles that ensued unless my tactics were quite superior- but I'd likely due some da…

I never got into sc2, but didn't they get rid of muta stacks and dancing dragoons? The silly "can move during weapon cooldown" mechanic of sc1 imho was disastrous for extreme micro requirements as it meant that units could back off in between firing while the unit AI just wants to stand and fight, meaning even the simplest battle requires extreme micro.

Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#166

I played StarCraft 2 for nearly a decade after it came out. It was always a solid experience. It is surprising that in all that time, there hasn't been a serious competitor to SC2 in the traditional RTS format. This article does a great job of breaking down why that might be. I mean, the mobile revolution did take some steam and excitement out of PC gaming for a while there. As the author points out, game devs tend t…

I remember when the iPad came out I was incredibly excited. This was surely perfect for RTS games! There was Command & Conquer: Red Alert Mobile, then.... The only other one I remember was an actually really good StarCraft clone by Gameloft (I forget the name). I always thought mobile would be great for RTS and then it just wasn't. Though when I think about it, the keyboard is pretty important and that kind of fast c…

You wrote exactly my thoughts! I was so excited for a new generation of touch-optimized RTS games when the iPad was released and I’ve been disappointed with the options.

Do you (or anyone) know of any iPad games that fit the bill these days? I played Vainglory for a while but that’s not a RTS - it’s a MOBA (and was fun and worked super well on touch).

Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#167

Blizzard cleaned it all up. Their games were so good no one even bothered to compete. I spent countless hours playing starcraft and warcraft. The other games didn't have the same addictive elements.

Agreed, it's a huge reason. Blizzard is the Nintendo of the PC space. Developers have noted for ages that competing on Nintendo platforms meant you had to match their 1st party titles. Which are held to a higher standard than others and don't get the reviews they deserve. There are few true competitors to the Mario games, Smash Bros, Mario Party, and Mario Kart for the same reason most people don't want to be compared to Blizzard's efforts.

Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but Mythic+ is not the mainstream content most of the players experience in the game. And the anti-social behaviour and elitism surrounding those groups who do M+ has even become a meme. The mainstream wow content is ridiculously unchallenging. You are grinding dailys you can join up queues to do your daily/weekly run of the instances and repeat next Wednesday. This is what most of the people playing retail see…

So..... the game is both difficult and unchallenging?

No. This is not what I wrote there. I try again:

Most of the game content and mechanics is unchallenging.

A group of people "guarding" the tiny difficult part are difficult.

Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#169
I posted something similar in a child comment but wanted to see if anyone had suggestions:

I bought an iPad excited for a generation of touch-optimizes RTS games and have been...disappointed. I played around with some of the MOBAs (Vainglory, etc) but that genre isn’t for me.

Are there any great (or even decent) iOS games that fit the RTS bill? I see a ton in the App Store that match the description but most just end up being free to play micro transaction gambling/monetization pits of despair, not actual RTS.

Suggestions appreciated!

Re: What Happened to the Real Time Strategy Genre?

#170
I never liked the move to really fast-paced, micro-intensive play. Real Time doesn't have to mean such a flurry of movement and clicking. From Starcraft on it seems like the genre has pushed more and more towards the micromanagement game. Heroes exemplified that in WC3.

A battle with more, slower moving units and simplified commands makes for a more tactical match-up that's less about hotkeys and razor-sharp reaction time and more about the art of war.

Does anyone know if there's a franchise out there moving in that direction?

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