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Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

nytimes.com

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Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#151

Post by _match »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #121
_match wrote: post #71

The prejudice and ignorance in these comments are astounding, so I'll try address the major themes. I'm defensive because, though I rarely watch the games, I enjoy listening to postgame interviews with the Alabama coach, Nick Saban. He's found unprecedented success in a brutally competitive field by following a textbook stoic philosophy people in the south call "The Process", by encouraging relentless pursuit of perf…

European universities have lots of intramural sports, including soccer. They just can’t understand our massive commercialization of college level sports, but no one else in the world could either, it is uniquely American.

Yea I think the reason is that Western Europe is historically much more urbanized than most of America.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#152

Post by dubya »

bookofjoe wrote: post #122
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We let students major in theater, but not in football. There's a big difference.

In fact, Alabama football team members spend far more time doing football-related things — practices, meetings, games, etc. — than any non-athlete devotes to their major subject.

Surely only 20 hours a week, or 8 in the off-season, according to NCAA rules.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#154

Post by dragonwriter »

jmpman wrote: post #153

If we make college free, like some politicians are proposing, does football revenue even matter anymore?

It matters even more: making the service free to students doesn't make the inputs free to the college itself, and many plans for government funding include outcome-based accountability for government subsidies (that's even true for sone proposed reforms that don't make college free.), And no plan is going to let colleges charge whatever they want and get the government to pay he bill. One way to get better outcomes for the same government pay check (and thus avoid being excluded) is to have excess revenues elsewhere to funnel into academics.

And, that aside, prestige is going to still matter to college governing bodies, and therefore to the leadership subject to and incentivized by them.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#155

Post by sturgill »

impendia wrote: post #10
partialrecall wrote: post #3

It's not at all clear to me why we allow American football and universities to have such a perverse relationship, when it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy (but there is no shortage of other non-academic activities that many students share, such as baseball...) And in cases like this, where students are leaving the game ea…

> Why can't the American football industry run itself more like the American baseball industry? I am a very strong opponent of the overwhelming sports culture at American universities, and of the absurd sums of money spent to sustain it. (Example: Dabo Swinney was just given a $93 million contract to remain the football coach of Clemson.) This >Defenders of the current system will often claim that football is profita…

I got an MBA from a fairly small private university. Speaking to the head of admissions he only wished the school had a D1 football team so that more people had heard of it.

There is a strong history of associating the identity of the school with its football program (though I expect this to wane as we learn more about the long-term impact of concussions). Let’s take Ohio State as an example: it is more compelling of a mid tier graduate program because of its success on the football field.

I don’t say that as a knock on OSU: they have fine academics. But being a Buckeye is very connected to the football team.

Same with Alabama. I currently live in Birmingham and when I relocated I was asked all the time, “whose your team?” That question only has two acceptable answers: Auburn or Alabama. There is no option for “none of the above.”

But I still expect this to wane given a long enough horizon. From a sample of one, I used to be very involved in college football and NFL fantasy football leagues. But over the last five years I’ve become less comfortable with the sport (it feels like watching a Roman gladiator match). I’m [edit: bearish] on the 15 year horizon for the sport: I think we’ve reached peak football.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#156

Post by cwkoss »

College football is a cancer on our societal productivity. Saban should be fired for his disregard for the safety of students. Baking the brains of thousands of students to impress a few dozen athletes is really stupid.

Not to mention the damage to the brains of student athletes colliding into each other.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#157

Post by yumraj »

impendia wrote: post #10
partialrecall wrote: post #3

It's not at all clear to me why we allow American football and universities to have such a perverse relationship, when it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy (but there is no shortage of other non-academic activities that many students share, such as baseball...) And in cases like this, where students are leaving the game ea…

> Why can't the American football industry run itself more like the American baseball industry? I am a very strong opponent of the overwhelming sports culture at American universities, and of the absurd sums of money spent to sustain it. (Example: Dabo Swinney was just given a $93 million contract to remain the football coach of Clemson.) This >Defenders of the current system will often claim that football is profita…

> successful football programs generate positive publicity for the school

Maybe for lower tier colleges, but I sincerely doubt that anyone gives a rodents behind how the football teams of Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, Harvard, Princeton, CalTech and others top-tier Universities are, before applying to them.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#158

Post by GhettoMaestro »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #98
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We let students major in theater, but not in football. There's a big difference.

Yet football players tend to make more money and find jobs around the sport more often than theater students do in and around the theater.

When you factor in the extremely small percentage of aspiring football players that will actually make it big, coupled with the now extremely clear effects of CTE... I openly ponder: What dollar figure would you require to willingly participate in a repetitive action that is known to cause long term brain damage (and essentially, brain death given CTE)?

Yeah, you might have a better quality of life (money wise) temporarily, but I would argue the horribleness one with CTE experiences at the end of their life outweighs that temporary benefit.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#159

Post by impendia »

yumraj wrote: post #157
impendia wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't the American football industry run itself more like the American baseball industry? I am a very strong opponent of the overwhelming sports culture at American universities, and of the absurd sums of money spent to sustain it. (Example: Dabo Swinney was just given a $93 million contract to remain the football coach of Clemson.) This >Defenders of the current system will often claim that football is profita…

> successful football programs generate positive publicity for the school Maybe for lower tier colleges, but I sincerely doubt that anyone gives a rodents behind how the football teams of Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, Harvard, Princeton, CalTech and others top-tier Universities are, before applying to them.

To my surprise I have heard, of Princeton in particular, that football is very important to alumni. When I visited, there was certainly no shortage of athletic swag sold across the street from campus.

They are in the Ivy League, which means they don't give out athletic scholarships. They would be crushed by any D1 team. And, yet, the alumni (many of whom are deep-pocketed) care.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#160

Post by yumraj »

impendia wrote: post #159
yumraj wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> successful football programs generate positive publicity for the school Maybe for lower tier colleges, but I sincerely doubt that anyone gives a rodents behind how the football teams of Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, Harvard, Princeton, CalTech and others top-tier Universities are, before applying to them.

To my surprise I have heard, of Princeton in particular, that football is very important to alumni. When I visited, there was certainly no shortage of athletic swag sold across the street from campus. They are in the Ivy League, which means they don't give out athletic scholarships. They would be crushed by any D1 team. And, yet, the alumni (many of whom are deep-pocketed) care.

Sure, the alumni care as it probably gives them something to root for and bond them. But, I'm sure the applying students don't care, which was my point.
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