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Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

nytimes.com

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Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#121

Post by seanmcdirmid »

_match wrote: post #71

The prejudice and ignorance in these comments are astounding, so I'll try address the major themes. I'm defensive because, though I rarely watch the games, I enjoy listening to postgame interviews with the Alabama coach, Nick Saban. He's found unprecedented success in a brutally competitive field by following a textbook stoic philosophy people in the south call "The Process", by encouraging relentless pursuit of perf…

European universities have lots of intramural sports, including soccer. They just can’t understand our massive commercialization of college level sports, but no one else in the world could either, it is uniquely American.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#122

Post by bookofjoe »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #93
slg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy Sports are part of a traditional old-school liberal arts education. That is why the Ivy League schools have some of the largest athletic departments in the country even though they don't generate revenue anywhere close to schools like Alabama or Ohio State. It is really no different th…

We let students major in theater, but not in football. There's a big difference.

In fact, Alabama football team members spend far more time doing football-related things — practices, meetings, games, etc. — than any non-athlete devotes to their major subject.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#124

Post by samsolomon »

qws wrote: post #22
impendia wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't the American football industry run itself more like the American baseball industry? I am a very strong opponent of the overwhelming sports culture at American universities, and of the absurd sums of money spent to sustain it. (Example: Dabo Swinney was just given a $93 million contract to remain the football coach of Clemson.) This >Defenders of the current system will often claim that football is profita…

Is it really still profitable in e.g. that case of Dabo Swinney landing a 93 million dollar contract?

Clemson's football program has been exceptional under Dabo. I can see how his 10-year contract is justified.

The top college football programs pull in over a hundred million in revenue each year. Clemson is on it's way there. And that's only in media, ticket sales and such. I'm sure schools with excellent football programs are more likely to attract students and alumni donations.

Check out this WSJ table with revenues from the 2018 season. https://graphics.wsj.com/table/NCAA_2019?mod=article_inline

EDIT: Thinking more about it—there are secondary effects as well. If a team does well, it attracts fans from out of town. Those fans will spend money on food, drinks, entertainment and hotels. That provides local businesses money and the city tax revenues.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#125

Post by mcguire »

magduf wrote: post #43
harryh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of universities in the US are non-profit institutions.

"Non-profit" doesn't mean that profit isn't the primary motive. It just means you can't show any profit, or return it to shareholders, as in a corporation. Instead, you do things like giving the University President an absurdly enormous salary, plus put him up in a lavish mansion, or go on a construction spree, building more and more very expensive buildings and stadiums, or give a 7-figure salary to the football coa…

One of my fondest memories from school was the biennial renovations of the dean of natural sciences' offices.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#126

Post by mikeash »

falcrist wrote: post #96
magashna wrote: post #6

Sounds like students opt-in to this to get rewards later. It's not a penalty, it's more like you don't get a free lottery ticket.

It's still a bit orwellian to manipulate students into installing a tracking app like that. Couldn't they just have the students who want to opt in swipe or tap their student IDs as they enter and again as they leave?

What would you do if someone wants to leave without swiping? Hold them there against their will? That would be eight million times more Orwellian than asking them to voluntarily install an app in exchange for some points.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#127

Post by prh8 »

aripickar wrote: post #68
partialrecall wrote: post #3

It's not at all clear to me why we allow American football and universities to have such a perverse relationship, when it's plain to see that football itself has nothing to do with education, except insofar as it's an activity that many students enjoy (but there is no shortage of other non-academic activities that many students share, such as baseball...) And in cases like this, where students are leaving the game ea…

Football in general provides massive benefits to Universities. 1. Football (and mens basketball) are forced to pay more or less for the rest of all the other sports on campus[0]. Because of Title IX, student athletes/scholarships provided need to be equal across gender, which means that there need to be women's teams, which almost always lose money. You can make an argument that there shouldn't be other men's sports…

Thank you for a very rare educated post in a HN discussion around sports. Wish this was a top level comment to get voted higher up.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#128

Post by rhinoceraptor »

chronjc839 wrote: post #95
rhinoceraptor wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> probably the most underpaid state employee What about the athletes themselves who are taking years off their lives, while getting absolutely no compensation?

> What about the athletes themselves who are taking years off their lives, while getting absolutely no compensation? 1. They are compensated with a degree, and not to mention the "luxury" benefits that come with being an athlete: better food, housing, tutors, golf carts for class, etc. 2. No one is forcing them to go to college.

Just because no one is forcing them to do it doesn’t mean it’s not exploitative. No one forces people to work in sweatshops.

Re: Alabama tracking students' locations to penalize them for leaving games early

#129

Post by dragonwriter »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #102
dragonwriter wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We let students major in theater, but not in football. Well, we usually don't call it “football” specifically, but “exercise science” or something similar is commonly available. And Baylor has “general studies”, which despite the generic name is intended to support “general career areas of health, fitness, recreation, and sport”, and that's what most of their football players major in.

Do you have to be on a team for those majors? Or does it count towards them? If not, I'd say that's still not the same.

> Do you have to be on a team for those majors? Or does it count towards them?

Varsity sports provides letter-graded credits in “classes” available only to student athletes at many colleges and universities, and those credits are generally applicable to general ed requirements for any major to whatever limits generally apply to PE credits, and to major requirements in some related majors, yes.

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