Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down • Hacker News Board

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#51

Post by Ididntdothis » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

prongletown wrote: post #48

nnq wrote: post #41

AR seems like one of those things that needs to be executed "perfectly" to work. VR can benefit a bit from suspension of disbelief etc. ...but with AR the real world is harsh :) But I bet we'll have "the iPhone" of AR doing it right and popping open the market! Someone will sure get lucky betting on it!

Apple has the resources, the install base, and (crucially) the data to make it happen. The "iPhone of AR" is probably going to be an iPhone.

Apple is (or used to be) very good at waiting for the right time when all necessary components for a good product are ready or close to ready. There is a lot of value in watching other companies fail and learn from them.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#52

Post by chrisjc » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

mdszy wrote: post #12

The company I work for is trialing AR solutions for remote support purposes. We've tried the glasses and customers hate it because it literally makes them motion sick. Our current thing is phone/tablet based where you can basically stream real time video to our support staff and each party can draw on the screen, and whatever they draw stays where it is in physical space. Customers love it, it works great. Nobody wan…

> and whatever they draw stays where it is in physical space.

Wow... that's a great way to utilize AR.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#53

Post by Gene_Parmesan » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

rococode wrote: post #32

I spent 3 months working on an AR project on the Magic Leap (the best funded AR startup, I think?). My conclusion was that the hardware just isn't there yet. VR tech feels impressive because the hardware works well. AR tech, on the other hand, still feels very much like a prototype, and far from real production use. Some of the main deal-breaker issues are heat, discomfort, dizziness, and software instability (I wrot…

I managed to try out Microsoft's HoloLens 2 at MS Build this year in Seattle. My impressions were that it's a very cool, very impressive prototype. FOV is still quite low, although I hear it's significantly improved from v1. Framerate felt too low for real-world stuff; as you were alluding to, our brains are used to screens operating at 60fps, but there's something about putting the screen right up next to your eyeballs and adding tracking (whether VR or AR) that kills that illusion and mandates at least 90fps, and very smooth. I'm not surprised by the reports of people getting motion sick.

Having said that, the fundamental interactions are very cool. I had slight difficulty figuring out where the tracking was actually registering (e.g., how far do I have to move my finger to 'tap' a button), but once I figured that out it worked just like you expected it to.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#54

Post by EpicEng » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

emef wrote: post #8

monkeydust wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have they achieved, has anyone been blown away by them? For me just getting into VR thanks to Oculus Quest which I have to say is an amazing product for the price.

I tried their demo at CVPR a few months ago. It was super immersive and crisp. You interact with an AI "guide" who shows you how to look around, pick things up, stick them on the wall, etc. It was surprisingly unnerving to look the AI in the eyes and have her react to my gestures. Beyond a sweet demo, not sure what the value in the product would be for a general consumer option, but cool technology for sure.

Interesting considering this comment from about the same time frame.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20253177

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#55

Post by miketuritzin » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

superfrank wrote: post #11

magashna wrote: post #4

Part of the magic of VR is the immersion. AR doesn't appeal to me, it seems more of a gimmick.

Personally, I feel the exact opposite. I don't see VR providing a whole lot outside the area of entertainment. How often do you want to be completely removed from the physical world on a regular basis. Even when you do want immersion a good story or a game with good mechanics is far more important in entertainment than the medium it's delivered though. This is the reason people still read books, why retro video games…

What about a headset (or glasses, contacts, whatever) that can provide anything from AR-style world annotations to a full VR experience, or anything in between? I agree that AR is something you'd use all the time, like a smartphone, but I do think the distinction between AR and VR is a bit artificial and due to what is technologically possible right now. There are many current VR experiences that would port surprisingly easily to AR (e.g., Tilt Brush, Oculus Medium, table tennis games, etc.) if there were AR hardware that was currently good enough.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#56

Post by Robotbeat » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

babyslothzoo wrote: post #45

Is AR this generations VR? Full of promises and fantasy, but all of which is far from being usable or practical at any mainstream level.

Less practical than VR. VR has a niche.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#57

Post by Robotbeat » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:49 PM UTC

Can someone explain to me why sufficiently good VR can't function as AR?

Just to lay out my point: AR has to have extremely good detail, framerate, and even depth of field to work well. It has to track everything perfectly and blend the two lightfields seemlessly or the immersion is broken and you risk nausea or at least annoyance.

But if you have high framerate, ability to simulate depth of field, high knowledge of the environment (enough to overlay seemlessly), etc, then couldn't you just... operate purely in VR with reality streamed in via lightfield cameras? That would allow you to do things that are impossible in AR, like display darker overlays on lighter surfaces, and everything would be at the same framerate so it'd be easier to seemlessly integrate everything.

So what does really, really good AR get you that really, really good VR with reality overlay does not? Seems like you can avoid a lot of super hard to effectively impossible hardware optics problems by just doing things with an opaque visor...

I'm not an expert in this field, so I'm probably using terminology incorrectly.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#58

Post by wvenable » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

magashna wrote: post #39

wvenable wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine you could just carry around a little keyboard or simply type into any flat surface just as you do now with a phone screen.

Without tactile feedback the hologram keyboards you see in sci-fi movies will feel terrible to use.

Without tactile feedback is how the majority of people type out text messages. In my opinion it's actually easier to type on a phone screen than a tiny smartphone keyboard (of which I had many).

But I agree. I never said AR would replace keyboards -- just screens.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#59

Post by bitL » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 7:53 PM UTC

twic wrote: post #27

monkeydust wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have they achieved, has anyone been blown away by them? For me just getting into VR thanks to Oculus Quest which I have to say is an amazing product for the price.

The AR hype bubble is collapsing now. The not-actually-tech bubble (WeWork, Uber) is next. I think it'll be AI after that (is that bubble even still around?). Great times to be picking up cheap office furniture!

ML is unlikely to bust; it actually works well and it's integrated into most services any of us uses regularly; just because you don't feel it/see it advertised openly, doesn't mean it is not going to be needed. I'd rather assume it's going to accelerate for even more (cognitive) automation, unlike AR/VR/BTC etc.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#60

Post by blululu » Fri, Sep 13, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

Robotbeat wrote: post #57

Can someone explain to me why sufficiently good VR can't function as AR? Just to lay out my point: AR has to have extremely good detail, framerate, and even depth of field to work well. It has to track everything perfectly and blend the two lightfields seemlessly or the immersion is broken and you risk nausea or at least annoyance. But if you have high framerate, ability to simulate depth of field, high knowledge of…

A number of challenges exist for pass through AR. I’m short the camera system that you need does not exist.

Cameras add latency. This causes nausea. Camera resolution is low. When the screen is less than 10 cm from your eyes the grain is very noticeable. Cameras only have limited focal range. Camera dynamic range is low. I’m many settings it is hard to capture images that your eye could handle.