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Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

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Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#31

The most widespread, successful use case AR which I can see currently is AR Filter i.e. snapchat filters and those who copied it. The reason IMO, is most of the users who use snapchat filters wouldn't even know what Augmented Reality is. It is that intuitive use case which can make high-tech get widespread consumer adoption. Looking at the rate at which limited attention, instant gratification apps are conquering mar…

This isn't a disagreement, but I was thinking the other day that the most widespread practical (non entertainment) AR app has got to be backup cameras and displays in cars.

Modern ones show both the actual live view + a composited on graphic of where your current backup line will take you based on the tire angle, etc.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#32
I spent 3 months working on an AR project on the Magic Leap (the best funded AR startup, I think?). My conclusion was that the hardware just isn't there yet.

VR tech feels impressive because the hardware works well. AR tech, on the other hand, still feels very much like a prototype, and far from real production use. Some of the main deal-breaker issues are heat, discomfort, dizziness, and software instability (I wrote more about the specific issues I encountered with the Magic Leap in a past thread [1]). To me it felt significantly worse than the Oculus Rift Development Kit 2 (the second public release of a VR device back in 2014). Back then when I got that version because I was super hyped for VR, I thought "Woah, clearly needs more work but this is amazing". With AR, my experience thus far has sadly been "Oh, this is it?".

A lot of it is presumably because AR is much harder to do well. A very simplified way of thinking of VR is basically it's a screen close to your face that can track its own pitch/yaw/roll/small amounts of movement and redraw accordingly. This is tricky, but totally doable (and thus, it was done). Smartphones have basically been able to do most of this for years (not so much the movement, but that's also a pretty new thing in VR).

AR actually has to interact with the real world. If you have a virtual image anchored to, say, a pendulum, that's fairly non-trivial computation-wise to recalculate without prior knowledge of the pendulum's movements. It's basically object detection which ML models can do fairly well, but they do it with latency. And when the latency is in something your brain is trying to process as the real world, it's nauseating. Add on the fact that it takes a lot of energy to do inference, and that AR devices need to be standalone devices that can be taken anywhere by themselves, and you also have a serious heat problem where the compute needed to constantly analyze the real world means you just have a hot brick on your head or in your pocket.

I think it's going to take a lot more time to get it right. It feels like a hard enough problem that I think the first truly production-grade AR device will have to come from one of the big companies, possibly Microsoft with HoloLens.

Of course, I write all this with the definition of AR as "something you wear on your head that overlays your full field-of-view with virtual graphics". Other forms of AR like Snapchat filters or camera overlays are probably less challenging.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20253177

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#34
I'm suddenly feeling super behind on the news. While I believe I've heard rumors about Apple working on augmented reality, I can't think of any such product announcements coming down the pipeline.

> While Apple and Microsoft strain to sell augmented reality as the next major computing platform,

Is that accurate? Is Apple putting a lot of effort into selling AR?

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#35

I'm suddenly feeling super behind on the news. While I believe I've heard rumors about Apple working on augmented reality, I can't think of any such product announcements coming down the pipeline. > While Apple and Microsoft strain to sell augmented reality as the next major computing platform, Is that accurate? Is Apple putting a lot of effort into selling AR?

Well you have the references to some kind of Glass-esque product in Xcode, and ARKit has been a part of iPhones since the X. It's interesting stuff but Apple doesn't seem to be interested in the fully immersive headsets so many other companies are. Microsoft seems to be doing a bit of both? But they aren't super focused on it.

Frankly I think the use of the word "strain" in that quote is a strain itself. They're definitely working on it, and it's there, but I wouldn't call it a feature they expect to shift units.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#36

The most widespread, successful use case AR which I can see currently is AR Filter i.e. snapchat filters and those who copied it. The reason IMO, is most of the users who use snapchat filters wouldn't even know what Augmented Reality is. It is that intuitive use case which can make high-tech get widespread consumer adoption. Looking at the rate at which limited attention, instant gratification apps are conquering mar…

This isn't a disagreement, but I was thinking the other day that the most widespread practical (non entertainment) AR app has got to be backup cameras and displays in cars. Modern ones show both the actual live view + a composited on graphic of where your current backup line will take you based on the tire angle, etc.

I wouldn't have categorized this as AR, but perhaps you're right. Would this instead be called a "heads up display"? I guess not, since it's not something that's shown on the windows you're looking through.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I feel the exact opposite. I don't see VR providing a whole lot outside the area of entertainment. How often do you want to be completely removed from the physical world on a regular basis. Even when you do want immersion a good story or a game with good mechanics is far more important in entertainment than the medium it's delivered though. This is the reason people still read books, why retro video games…

If you have to read something, then your focus most certainly will be diverted, even if it’s relevant to what you were looking at or thinking about. There in lies the problem — if information pops up that’s relevant to our conversation, you’re still getting pulled out of the moment in an asymmetric way. That has negative consequences to human interaction. Plus don’t forget — popping up the right information at the ri…

> if information pops up that’s relevant to our conversation, you’re still getting pulled out of the moment in an asymmetric way.

I agree with you there, but I'd argue it's less distracting than trying to pull something not readily available from memory. Sure having to read something is distracting for a second, but it's far less distracting that trying to remember something that's just on the tip of your tongue, or having to pull out your phone.

> popping up the right information at the right time is an extraordinarily hard problem to solve.

It is for a generic solution, but I feel like custom built solutions will be what really revolutionizes the work place. If I'm a UPS driver, I can have a custom UPS app that allows me to look into my truck and instantly see the package id of each box overlaid on the box. That's not a hard problem to solve with the proper AR tools and it instantly provides value.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#38
post #5
post #4

Part of the magic of VR is the immersion. AR doesn't appeal to me, it seems more of a gimmick.

Except for the fact you spend most of your time in the real world. I can probably think of a million different uses for an AR display. What’s really missing is a good way to interact with that display. Voice recognition and hand gesture recognition need to improve.

Yes, I spend most of my time in real life, which is why the modern equivalent of a pop-up book isn't that interesting to me. AR needs to have its "killer app" to draw me in. It's not there yet.

Meanwhile, VR can take me to another world. Games like Thumper, Audioshield and Beat Saber are enough to sell me on a crazy musical experience.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will still need gesture and voice recognition to be on a reliable level. Also how would I text privately with someone? One theory I have is that we will eventually just carry around phone like slates which AR would display normal phone stuff on.

I imagine you could just carry around a little keyboard or simply type into any flat surface just as you do now with a phone screen.

Without tactile feedback the hologram keyboards you see in sci-fi movies will feel terrible to use.

Re: Another heavily-funded AR headset startup is shutting down

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I feel the exact opposite. I don't see VR providing a whole lot outside the area of entertainment. How often do you want to be completely removed from the physical world on a regular basis. Even when you do want immersion a good story or a game with good mechanics is far more important in entertainment than the medium it's delivered though. This is the reason people still read books, why retro video games…

I'd love it. If I could go to a space where I'm immersed in code, data, paint or sound and could interact with it to create, I'd be all sold on VR. It would provide me with a whole new medium to transfer my thoughts in. But AR? What can I get with it that I can't with a phone? The information speed is near instant to what I need as a human. And what can I get with it that won't be ads?

> If I could go to a space where I'm immersed in code, data, paint or sound and could interact with it

You can code in VR, but it's crap.

VR is great, but trying to use VR as a replacement for classic computers isn't the right way. It's an entirely new paradigm. Take Tilt Brush VR for example - you're creating virtual 3D art which can only be viewed in a headset and that's how I'd view content creation in VR.

No, right now VR's best market is games and storytelling, that's what will really push the technology forward and eventually make the business cases a possibility as the tech becomes viable.

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