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Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

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Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#321

Post by CapricornNoble »

tomhoward wrote: post #299
CapricornNoble wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>Trying to associate immigration with disease is some vile rhetoric. Cross-border population movements are a potential vector for disease transmission. Just look at the Google Scholar results from some similar searches, especially [1] and [2]. Casting objective physical science concerns as some sort of subjective expression of xenophobia is unhelpful to mitigating or solving real problems. [1] https://www.ingentaco…

Yet no serious commentator advocates shutting down tourism out of concern for spread of disease, and it's long been found that the key to preventing infection outbreaks is to have a well-functioning medical system.

Probably because tourists move through very easily monitored access points. Not sure about the US, but most major airports in Asia have body-heat sensors to flag anyone who might be suffering from an infection-related fever. Similar controls should exist at all immigration points to the US. Implementing processes and technical systems to mitigate risk first requires acknowledging that the risk exists, and isn't just "vile rhetoric". Then we can reap the benefits of legal immigration while avoiding the negatives.

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#322

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

anigbrowl wrote: post #232
ekianjo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eliminating borders is a recipe for disaster. You can't expect your country to remain the same if you let millions or dozens of millions of people freely coming in from different cultures and backgrounds. Immigration is all about "how much is still OK to let in (trade-off between risks and benefits)", and once you say "whoever wants to enter", it's hard to take this kind of opinion seriously.

Nonsense, and you don't believe that either. Otherwise you'd be arguing for hard borders between US states to preserve their unique character. Border politics are drive by racism, pure and simple. You may not be racist, but you should look into the history around the politics of this and the extreme right wingers that back the various anti-immigration front groups.

Are you implying that wanting to have a border is a belief that is "basically racism"? What you are doing is stretching and expanding the word "racism", which doesn't do anyone any good because you are diluting the real phenomenon, you make free speech harder, because suddenly you call many more phenomenon "racist", you alienate a lot of people who would even agree with you otherwise - you are basically corrupting your language.

This is not a good thing for any cause, this is just a tool that is used in a political debate to try to win arguments through linguistical tricks, not through real arguments.

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#323

Post by HonkHill »

anigbrowl wrote: post #232
ekianjo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eliminating borders is a recipe for disaster. You can't expect your country to remain the same if you let millions or dozens of millions of people freely coming in from different cultures and backgrounds. Immigration is all about "how much is still OK to let in (trade-off between risks and benefits)", and once you say "whoever wants to enter", it's hard to take this kind of opinion seriously.

Nonsense, and you don't believe that either. Otherwise you'd be arguing for hard borders between US states to preserve their unique character. Border politics are drive by racism, pure and simple. You may not be racist, but you should look into the history around the politics of this and the extreme right wingers that back the various anti-immigration front groups.

You might not but racist, but your username is, aNigBroWL

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#324

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

elbasti wrote: post #171
ganitarashid wrote: post #56

What is wrong with enforcing border security laws? Curious why you think less of him for supporting those efforts.

In principle, nothing. In practice, current policy at the southern US border is directly responsible for acts which are unconscionably cruel and inhumane. Separating children, babies and toddlers from their parents. Keeping children in bed-less, 24/7 lit rooms. Not giving sanitary pads to menstruating girls, etc. The list of atrocities is growing, depressing and unforgivable. Apprehended migrants are treated in ways…

By that logic, doesn't someone also support "unhumane practices" if they do any kind of work or subcontract to US government? If you group everything together, then anyone supporting US is "directly responsible for an increase in human suffering". Does that really look like sound logic to you?

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#325

Post by auslander »

auslander wrote: post #258

> towers with cameras and infrared sensors that use artificial intelligence to track movement. No automatic gun turrets and autonomous drones? Phew!

Liberals and downvoters are designated primary targets. Weapons free, my friends, weapons free.

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#326

Post by CapricornNoble »

zerr wrote: post #319
CapricornNoble wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> As for your sovereignty - it ends outside of your condo Why do you have sovereignty over your condo? Why can't I express my right to sleep on your couch, regardless of your consent? If you can express access control rights over a particular piece of territory or property that you consider your own, then why can't a collective group of people also express access control rights over their common, government-managed…

To eliminate the birth lottery. Remember, we are talking about the reasons - restricting the movement of someone only because he/she was born in the "wrong" coordinates on the map (and in the "wrong" time) is simply inhuman.

I'm slightly confused regarding your position, are you seeking open borders, or solely the elimination of birthright citizenship?

I think there's enough responses in the thread regarding open borders that I won't belabor that point again. To the question of birthright citizenship, I'd probably be ok with eliminating it if we replaced it with service-based citizenship a la Starship Troopers (to include volunteering in the Peace Corps, volunteer firefighting, and maybe law enforcement). But it leads to the question of: if people (including native-born ones) don't meet the citizenship requirements, do they become stateless persons? Do we deport them? To where?

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#327

Post by ThePawnBreak »

stordoff wrote: post #201
ThePawnBreak wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The United States itself had "open borders" for a long period of time. There was mass immigration from Ireland, Italy, and many other places and it worked out quite well for us. There was no welfare state back then, and the economic situation was vastly different. Also saying it went "quite well" looks over all of the ethnic tension that took decades to fix. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Americans#Discriminat…

> Heard about Brexit? The UK was never in the Schengen Area to begin with.

Do you live in Europe? Schengen is only about passport control at the border, but any EU citizen had the right to work in the UK, no visa required. Eastern European workers lowering wages and quality of work for most British tradesmen and low skilled workers is probably the main reason for Brexit.

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#328

Post by cambalache »

ndarwincorn wrote: post #174
cambalache wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should not..Nobody will force you.But as a Venezuelan is my duty to mention some reasons to counterbalance your POV: 1- No country is an homogenous group.In the case of Venezuela after Chavez first election the country basically was splitted 50/50 . In Maduro's case the split is easily 90/10 against him.When you refuse to help venezuelans you refuse to help a gigantic group of people who did not choose Maduro at…

> If markets are going to be free an open ,the.movement of.person should be too. Facts. Thanks for coming on here and helping balance the rampant xenophobia in this thread. Please know that some of us in the USA are aware of how our government has treated and continues to treat the Western hemisphere, and that we're doing the best we can to change it. Unfortunately, comments like the one you replied to reflect the ma…

No problem. I understand that with the model we have right now (nation-states with closed borders) most people do not like to receive migrants for certain valid and not-so-valid reasons. I just wanted to provide the perspective from the migrants point of view.

Maybe I am naive, but I like to think that if we dont destroy ourselves first, in some moment in the future (100-1000 years) the earth will belong to all of us, so a person from Africa could visit Yellowstone, Montreal and Stamford Bridge without giving their dignity away in a visa process. Same for an American going or settling in Beijing , Vladivostok or Brasilia.

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#329

Post by zerr »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #326
zerr wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To eliminate the birth lottery. Remember, we are talking about the reasons - restricting the movement of someone only because he/she was born in the "wrong" coordinates on the map (and in the "wrong" time) is simply inhuman.

I'm slightly confused regarding your position, are you seeking open borders, or solely the elimination of birthright citizenship? I think there's enough responses in the thread regarding open borders that I won't belabor that point again. To the question of birthright citizenship, I'd probably be ok with eliminating it if we replaced it with service-based citizenship a la Starship Troopers (to include volunteering in…

There are many angles/perspectives. Lets consider two categories for whom it is declared that we need them or they are allowed to enter: high-skilled workforce and refugees. We all know (here at HN) about the huge bureaucracy and obstacles when it comes to work permits. As for the refugees - everyone declares that they are allowed to enter, but in order to qualify for such status they need to be [almost] drown in the sea or [almost] killed at the border.

https://www.liberties.eu/en/news/why-refugees-do-not-take-th...

https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2016/02/11/why-dont-refugees-fly/

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#330

Post by nudpiedo »

atonse wrote: post #63

Yuck. It's like the perfect marriage of taking any remaining humanity out of law enforcement and add tons of bottomless greed to it. It's so very Peter Thiel-ish. I'd love to say I wish them well, but I hope this company goes out of business due to a public outrage. But they'll always find someone to sell to, like authoritarian governments, and make money hand-over-fist.

From your words I understand you don’t see compatible border patrol or border control with “humanity” and nothing said will change your mind.

Are you aware of any country without any border control laws or laws to regulate the movements of people? I am only aware of countries who cannot enforce their own laws, and for sure I am for sure not speaking about international agreements between countries which is a total different topic.

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