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Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

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Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#381
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamilton’s The Reality Dysfunction was the stupidest book I’ve ever read and took hundreds of pages to expose itself. Are his others any more grounded (like your other suggestions)?

did you read the same book as me.. it was pretty awesome

I'm a huge fan of Hamilton's books but I have to agree this one was.. different.

I think I liked it in the end, though not as much as his other books, but can absolutely understand people would dislike it.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#382
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a quick analogy to help (loosely adapted from Brian Greene): You're on a grass field, sitting on one of those riding lawnmower thingies, with a broken throttle. It's moving at a fixed speed of 1mph. You can't ever change its velocity. But you can steer it. If you are going precisely east-west, then it means you're not going north-south. The more you go north-south, the less you'll be going east-west. If you're…

I like this analogy, but I think an even bigger problem than distance contraction is that in fact the lawnmower can go east-west on one axis, but only towards the north on the other axis, towards the future, at least as far as we have observed in macroscopic systems. This may not be a problem for some definitions of time, but for the notion of time which goes from past to future, I don't think the analogy holds very…

Actually the analogy is a bit poorer than that, but also more consistent. You can only go one direction on either axis. Any movement in 3D space advances you along the "+space" axis, to the the detriment of your default movement along the "+time" axis. But just as there's no "-time" axis, there's also no "-space" axis.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything in the Culture series by Iain M. Banks; The Expanse series by James S. A. Corey; The Commonwealth and Void trilogies by Peter F. Hamilton, and the Night’s Dawn trilogy also by Peter F. Hamilton; The Dune saga by Frank Herbert.

Is Pandoras Star worth the effort?

Definitely. I still have some series to read, especially the dark tower from Stephen King which I already started, but I think I'll re-read the whole commonwealth saga in the near future.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#384
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamilton’s The Reality Dysfunction was the stupidest book I’ve ever read and took hundreds of pages to expose itself. Are his others any more grounded (like your other suggestions)?

did you read the same book as me.. it was pretty awesome

The reincarnation of Al Capone?

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamilton’s The Reality Dysfunction was the stupidest book I’ve ever read and took hundreds of pages to expose itself. Are his others any more grounded (like your other suggestions)?

Yeah the Night’s dawn series was a bit out there compared to the genre average. The Commonwealth series is considerably closer to baseline, and his best books IMO. The void trilogy (and the newer trilogy whose name escapes me) follow on from the Commonwealth books, and while good, don’t hold up to the first three.

Thanks for the heads up! I liked his writing style so I’ll put them on the list.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#386
post #310

Some caveats per Marina Koren https://twitter.com/marinakoren/status/1171873631808438273 1. This planet probably doesn’t have a solid surface 2. Being in the “habitable zone” doesn’t mean a planet is habitable 3. The detection is of water molecules, chances are the water only exists as vapour in the atmosphere of this small gas giant. 4. If you ask 10 astronomers about this you will get 11 opinions

> 2. Being in the “habitable zone” doesn’t mean a planet is habitable Related question: Does "habitable" mean "habitable for humans"? I thought it didn't, but after reading some dictionary definitions, i believe it does. On the other hand looking at the planetary habitability wikipedia page it's clear that it means "life-friendly". No wonder many people are confused. Of course a planet with 8-9 times the mass of eart…

The “habitable zone” is the theoretical range from the Star that allows an Earth-like planet to have mean temperatures suitable for Earth-like life.

It’s almost entirely arbitrary, but roughly based on luminosity of the star.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#387
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that's purely for a chemical rocket, right? Is there any combination of tricks that can realistically push the envelope there? For example can we use a space elevator to start higher/faster (or, I don't know, balloons? a catapult or railgun or something?), laser power delivery from the ground, so we don't have to carry all the fuel, and an orbiting way-station for refueling, etc.?

Solar sails might be able to beat it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail

Solar sails are good for inter-planetary travel, but they aren't going to move the needle for launching off of a planet with 2g gravity! You need something that is compact and would give you a big impulse.

As a KSP engineer would say, it "needs more boosters" https://i.redd.it/zuymxc5bb7s21.jpg

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#388
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this analogy, but I think an even bigger problem than distance contraction is that in fact the lawnmower can go east-west on one axis, but only towards the north on the other axis, towards the future, at least as far as we have observed in macroscopic systems. This may not be a problem for some definitions of time, but for the notion of time which goes from past to future, I don't think the analogy holds very…

Actually the analogy is a bit poorer than that, but also more consistent. You can only go one direction on either axis. Any movement in 3D space advances you along the "+space" axis, to the the detriment of your default movement along the "+time" axis. But just as there's no "-time" axis, there's also no "-space" axis.

Let me put it another way: from any point in space, we know you can move to any other point in space, in a finite amount of time (disregarding the accelerating expansion of the universe).

As far as we have observed, the same is not true with (the common-language definition of) time - I can't go back to the moment I was born, for example.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#389
post #328

I got into the Wait Calculation[1] a few weeks back and made a Jupyter notebook out of it. At our current max speed (692,000 km/hr, stated max speed of Parker Space Probe), it would take about 173,000 years to get to that planet. We could instead choose to Wait and grow our tech. By picking a constant annual growth rate and then doing some calculus to find the minimum, we can calculate the shortest possible time it w…

Yeah. Well. That's a fun math game and not much more. Other view on "energy growth rate": https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/ Energy growth is due to end sooner or later. First, in the real world, any long term exponential growth is actually the upward branch of an S (that plateau at some point) or of a bell curve (that falls down after a peak). Second, with such an energy growth rate we'll boil…

Mostly I agree. But: we can keep our energy curve growing for a bit longer, if we branch out into the local space around us. No worries about boiling the ocean, when the energy stays in orbit.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain this further? It seems this is relevant more for something other than the Wait Calculation. The original Wait Calculation doesn't factor in mass at all. I'm having trouble understanding what this impacts. Is this more about relativistic time passage, like from the ship traveler versus the observer? Most scenarios I've explored - low velocity growth rate, nearby planets/stars - the Wait Calculation tel…

Honestly, I made that comment without fully thinking through how to implement my suggestion, and now I realize that I've stumped myself. However, let me explain what I meant anyway: First of all, you're right that this won't really impact your answer at insignificant fractions of light speed. You mentioned that using the 4.72% growth rate, the equation tells you to wait until you've passed the speed of light, and I t…

Btw, if you measure the time as experienced by the traveller, the classic equation will give you exactly the right answer:

Pouring more energy into acceleration won't make you move faster (even subjectively) but it will shorten the way. (From the outside, it looks like time dilation.)

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