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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#191

Post by age_bronze »

partialrecall wrote: post #183
age_bronze wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I think the lesson was learned. Why would you risk such a backlash again?

With all due respect, that's terribly naive (or, you think we're terribly naive enough to believe it.) Pollard wasn't the first, and he certainly wasn't the last.

Naive would be thinking you can conduct espionage without ever getting caught. Getting caught spying a huge risk, and unless you have an even bigger risk, why would you ever do that? What can possibly justify risking getting caught spying on the US? Israel isn't dumb, it's a simple risk analysis. Unless Israel has a bigger risk to protect against, than the US cutting off ties as a result of another polard, Israel would never do that.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#192

Post by lostlogin »

yasp wrote: post #172
lostlogin wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that the quote mentions Tel Aviv and not Jerusalem.

Why is that interesting?

Where is the capital? That sound more sarcastic than I mean it, but the centre of administration is clearly Tel Aviv.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#193

Post by colordrops »

kstenerud wrote: post #79
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #28

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

Israel and Saudi Arabia are America's eyes and ears into the Middle East. It could have been any nation (indeed, America tried to get Iran as well, but was... less than successful). These kinds of relationships require a fair bit of quid pro quo, and of course for a country like Israel whose very national security depends upon a cozy relationship with America, it's perfectly understandable that they'd be spying on Am…

> Israel and Saudi Arabia are America's eyes and ears into the Middle East

more like claws and fangs

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#194

Post by Despegar »

remarkEon wrote: post #181
chimi wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

So, their spying is justified because they need to know in advance if US politicians wouldn’t fully support a potential WWIII-esque intervention on their behalf, ostensibly so they could throw their own support behind a different US politician? And this is ... not viewed as insane by normal people?

>if US politicians wouldn’t fully support a potential WWIII-esque intervention

It's amusing but that's not even the real concern. Israel, Iran, the US and the world all know perfectly well that there's no existential threat to Israel.

The more immediate concern is as always Israel-Palestine issues. The multi-decade rightward shift in Israeli politics has culminated with the Trump administration, where they are trying to annex as much Palestinian land as possible.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#195

Post by TKWasRight »

flyinglizard wrote: post #154
devmunchies wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a good point. If we weren't allied with Israel and didn't pick sides in the middle east, would we even need allies over there?

Just extend this logic to the Cold War and WWII. Why would America ever choose sides, right? Just let the Nazis take over Europe and USSR take over the rest. No enemies to worry about!

Until they attacked Pearl Harbor, we weren't involved...the American populace, largely, didn't want any involvement in a European War...

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#196

Post by age_bronze »

chimi wrote: post #174
scottlocklin wrote: post #162

It's not like the Israelis haven't done this before and not paid any consequences for it. 2000: https://www.wrmea.org/000-june/despite-coverup-israel-caught... 2015 caught greasing politicians: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spy-net-on-israel-snares-co... 2011: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08spy.html 2015: https://theintercept.com/2015/03/25/netanyahus-spying-denial... 2014: https://www.newsweek.com/israel…

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

Let me get this straight: Israel risks pissing the U.S by spying on them, which can lead to them cutting ties with Israel, in order to make sure that US does not cut its ties with Israel. Would you risk spying on your girlfriend to make sure she wants to stay your girlfriend? This makes no sense.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#197

Post by TKWasRight »

partialrecall wrote: post #182
flyinglizard wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that radical Islam would embrace USA’s existence without its support of Israel is delusional. USA stands against everything they believe in. It just reeks of appeasement.

I thought this "they hate us for our freedoms" line of reasoning went out of style 15+ years ago.

It's still used by those that want to deflect away from the very odd and disadvantageous relationship we have with Israel...

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#198

Post by yuft »

buyingarmor wrote: post #4

Israel and the U.S are extremely strong alliance Also the Mossad is working a lot with the secret service in the U.S I believe there is a deeper reason behind those actions that won't be revealed to us (it can also explain the lack of actions of the U.S towards this case)

Germany is an ally of the United States and yet...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/08/nsa-tapped-g...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/22/world/europe/intelligence...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/us-spying-angela-merkel_n_416...

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#199

Post by everybodyknows »

tonyarkles wrote: post #47
kilroy123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol I find that extremely hard to believe. I would bet every dollar I had that we (the US) do spy on Israeli soil.

Last line of the article: > As for Israel’s recent surveillance of the White House, one of the former senior U.S. intelligence officials acknowledged it raised security concerns but joked, “On the other hand, guess what we do in Tel Aviv?”

All governments spy on all other governments. The only differences in spying policies are:

1. Effort expended, money in particular.

2. Risk tolerance, toward exposure and blowback.

3. Competence of execution.

#3 is a function of the spy org, #1 and #2 are functions of pairwise relations between the particular governments.

Even the closest of allies spy on each other. We don't hear about it much, because risk tolerance #2 in such efforts is more wisely kept very low.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#200

Post by [deleted] »

age_bronze wrote: post #196
chimi wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

Let me get this straight: Israel risks pissing the U.S by spying on them, which can lead to them cutting ties with Israel, in order to make sure that US does not cut its ties with Israel. Would you risk spying on your girlfriend to make sure she wants to stay your girlfriend? This makes no sense.

[deleted]
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