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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#181

Post by remarkEon »

chimi wrote: post #174
scottlocklin wrote: post #162

It's not like the Israelis haven't done this before and not paid any consequences for it. 2000: https://www.wrmea.org/000-june/despite-coverup-israel-caught... 2015 caught greasing politicians: https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-spy-net-on-israel-snares-co... 2011: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08spy.html 2015: https://theintercept.com/2015/03/25/netanyahus-spying-denial... 2014: https://www.newsweek.com/israel…

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

So, their spying is justified because they need to know in advance if US politicians wouldn’t fully support a potential WWIII-esque intervention on their behalf, ostensibly so they could throw their own support behind a different US politician?

And this is ... not viewed as insane by normal people?

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#182

Post by partialrecall »

flyinglizard wrote: post #160
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they conspicuously didn't until Pearl Harbor.

Saying that radical Islam would embrace USA’s existence without its support of Israel is delusional. USA stands against everything they believe in. It just reeks of appeasement.

I thought this "they hate us for our freedoms" line of reasoning went out of style 15+ years ago.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#183

Post by partialrecall »

age_bronze wrote: post #180
partialrecall wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really doubt the guilt of Jonathan Pollard? That's a new one...

No, I think the lesson was learned. Why would you risk such a backlash again?

With all due respect, that's terribly naive (or, you think we're terribly naive enough to believe it.) Pollard wasn't the first, and he certainly wasn't the last.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#185

Post by chimi »

remarkEon wrote: post #181
chimi wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

So, their spying is justified because they need to know in advance if US politicians wouldn’t fully support a potential WWIII-esque intervention on their behalf, ostensibly so they could throw their own support behind a different US politician? And this is ... not viewed as insane by normal people?

I'm not justifying it. I'm explaining Israel's rationale for doing it.

I am staunchly opposed to national borders. I don't think it's right to discriminate against people for where they are born.

IMO, all human beings should be allowed to freely travel and work anywhere on planet earth.

EDIT: Or outer space for that matter...

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#186

Post by [deleted] »

age_bronze wrote: post #173

Blood libel. I've yet to see one real evidence for real spying, not some black cube (who are greedy pieces of shit, but are not part of Israel government), or some boogeyman story of possible suspicion. Truth is, Israel barely has anything to gain while it has so much to lose from such espionage. It's not worth it. US is just so damn paranoid, that it will never believe that. These allegations are the new jewish bloo…

[deleted]

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#187

Post by [deleted] »

remarkEon wrote: post #181
chimi wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

So, their spying is justified because they need to know in advance if US politicians wouldn’t fully support a potential WWIII-esque intervention on their behalf, ostensibly so they could throw their own support behind a different US politician? And this is ... not viewed as insane by normal people?

[deleted]

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#188

Post by imglorp »

stateofnounion wrote: post #88

Not surprising. It's intriguing to think about how this might intersect with the recently departed Jeffery: https://www.mintpressnews.com/mega-group-maxwells-mossad-spy...

Oh boy, that article series needs more attention.

On a similar note, just regarding intercept material from the stingrays in OP, the fact that there AREN'T a bunch of White House phone conversations posted to the internet may tell us something about whoever placed them. They could be posted any time to embarrass/indict/etc the administration but instead they're being held for leverage.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#189

Post by jbigelow76 »

remarkEon wrote: post #181
chimi wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without support from the USA, it would not be possible for Israel to defend itself. Much of their spying on the USA is not to harm the USA, but to ensure the USA is still on their side. I don't think they want to hurt the USA, but I do think they would support an opponent of a politician that had been "heard" expressing a lack of interest in financial and military support for Israel.

So, their spying is justified because they need to know in advance if US politicians wouldn’t fully support a potential WWIII-esque intervention on their behalf, ostensibly so they could throw their own support behind a different US politician? And this is ... not viewed as insane by normal people?

When you phrase it as an existential threat (and WWIII-esque originating in the Middle East would be) like that then, no it wouldn't seem insane, pragmatic isn't the right phrase but real politik is.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#190

Post by mistermann »

habnds wrote: post #164
mistermann wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “The reaction ... WAS very different than it WOULD HAVE BEEN in the last administration,” this person said. “With the current administration, there ARE a different set of calculations in regard to addressing THIS.” > The former senior intelligence official criticized how the administration handled the matter, remarking on the striking difference from past administrations, which LIKELY would have at a very minimum i…

The article isn't saying that. It's in quotes becuase they are reporting the words of someone they've deemed to be a reputable source for the topic of standard administration behavior. You may have an issue with that source's opinion, but that's different from having an issue with Politico.

> The article isn't saying that. It's in quotes becuase they are reporting the words of someone they've deemed to be a reputable source for the topic of standard administration behavior.

Very good point. My claim: "Stating speculation as fact...." itself could be described as sloppy. To clarify: factually, Politico is printing the words of a third party - it is a fact (presumably) that this person made that statement. The statement itself is speculation stated as fact, but the speaker bears the direct guilt for that, not Politico.

But I'm not pointing my finger so much at Politico for some sort of outrageous bias, in general or in this particular case, but rather the general way that events in reality are communicated to the public, and the way in which this subsequently manifests in society. Even if nothing nefarious has gone on, people perceive reality and the news the way they do (the specifics of which no one fully understands), and I'm suggesting (based largely on observation of apparent beliefs held by people in forums) that narrative and rumor based reporting like this is having a possibly very serious effect on people's perception of reality, the result being some degree of textbook mass delusion or worse in the public, where prior to cable news and the internet the beliefs would generally have been either null or wrong in other ways.

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