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Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

outsideonline.com

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Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#111

Post by dymk »

wellactually wrote: post #80
brainwad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rationing is not a very fair way to distribute goods or services to people. Some people may value it just enough to pay the entry fee, while others might value it a lot more, but now they have the same chances of receiving it. If you prohibit people from on-selling their tickets, then you also causes losses when people change their minds but are already locked in by the lottery.

It's not a perfect solution, granted, but it's less likely to result in implicit selection of only the wealthiest people.

Why is that a problem? Plenty of resources are allocated to meet supply and demand. Is traveling to specific locations inherently different?

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#112

Post by mistermann »

frereubu wrote: post #98
thedaemon wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people wouldn't comment about other people's comments like this. Just up or down vote, this makes for even more boring reading than the comment you mentioned. Here I am breaking my own rule because I cannot down vote your comment.

But I don't want to downvote their comment (although I don't want to upvote it either). The issue with your suggestion is that a downvote will be seen as a vote on the content of the comment. There isn't a separate "downvote for special pleading" option.

I think the current guideline on voting should be changed to "do not downvote if you disagree with the sentiment of a comment, provided it is substantive and factual". I see way too many downvoted comments that are purely statements of relevant fact, or are sincere questions. If HN members can't manage being reasonable and logical about controversial subjects, how do we ever expect the average person on the street to do so? No wonder politics is so screwed up these days.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#113

Post by not_a_cop75 »

ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

All they have to do is allow the immigration of violent sects. Overtourism problem solved.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#114

Post by wellactually »

dymk wrote: post #111
wellactually wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a perfect solution, granted, but it's less likely to result in implicit selection of only the wealthiest people.

Why is that a problem? Plenty of resources are allocated to meet supply and demand. Is traveling to specific locations inherently different?

It depends on the values of the host society. They may want to promote democratic access to their country.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#115

Post by dymk »

wellactually wrote: post #114
dymk wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a problem? Plenty of resources are allocated to meet supply and demand. Is traveling to specific locations inherently different?

It depends on the values of the host society. They may want to promote democratic access to their country.

What does "democratic access to their country" even mean? The tourists visiting their country don't vote, so you don't mean literally. And any random rationing system you put in place will be inherently unfair in some dimension.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#116

Post by prepend »

baud147258 wrote: post #90
ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

> You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit It feels like a slippery slope argument.

A slippery slope argument is not necessarily wrong or poor rhetoric. It would help me understand if you would say why this is a poor use of slippery slope.

Many relationships naturally follow along a curve so pointing out this relationship should be remarkable for being wrong if you pass along some other info like maybe you think this rarely occurs, or is not logical.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#117

Post by eisa01 »

skohan wrote: post #57
ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

I have mixed feelings about this. I used to live in El Raval, and during August I dreaded even leaving the apartment because I knew I would have to fight crowds even to go to the corner and buy milk. I agree with your general premise, that restricting freedom of movement has not historically been a good thing, but I do also think it's a tragic when a beautiful and interesting place gets absolutely overrun by tourists…

There’s at least one benefit of tourists: you get more and a better selection of restaurants

I live in a part of Oslo with a vibrant restaurant scene, and one of the reasons is the extra business tourists drum up

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#118

Post by mogadsheu »

I think the answer is clear, if not a bit brutal: raise prices for tourists.

Tourism is a luxury, not a right, and if there is a perceived negative externality to Norway from overtourism, it should be mitigated in the market. There will be fewer people who are willing to go to Trolltunga if they are not a Norwegian resident and the price of entry is $200.

Sidenote: I lived in Norway for a few years, gorgeous place but it does need to be preserved to keep its integrity.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#119

Post by kgwgk »

eisa01 wrote: post #117
skohan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings about this. I used to live in El Raval, and during August I dreaded even leaving the apartment because I knew I would have to fight crowds even to go to the corner and buy milk. I agree with your general premise, that restricting freedom of movement has not historically been a good thing, but I do also think it's a tragic when a beautiful and interesting place gets absolutely overrun by tourists…

There’s at least one benefit of tourists: you get more and a better selection of restaurants I live in a part of Oslo with a vibrant restaurant scene, and one of the reasons is the extra business tourists drum up

Maybe "more" but restaurants catering to tourists are not usually "better".

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#120

Post by e12e »

ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

There's overtourism and then there's overtourism. Up here in Tromsø - one issue is simply fragile nature - without stone paths, people walking around here really harms the environment. Cobblestone pavements fare better.

That said, some steps are taken to provide for more visitors - but the work takes time.

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