Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism • Hacker News Board

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#71

Post by PeterStuer » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:12 PM UTC

bjornsing wrote: post #34

ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

Yea it’s a funny word “overtourism”. I guess it’s what you call it when other people go on vacation (whereas when I go on vacation it’s just “tourism”). :P

Dosage matters. Many things that are completely destructive or toxic are not a problem and even beneficial and enriching in small dosage. Tourism is most definitely one of those things. Typically it benefits a very few in the host location while externalizing the destruction of the culture, the environment and the quality of life for the many that have these places as their home. So it is not about 'you' vs 'the others'. It is about the quantity of people exceeding what is a healthy balance.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#72

Post by skohan » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #52

bjornsing wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea it’s a funny word “overtourism”. I guess it’s what you call it when other people go on vacation (whereas when I go on vacation it’s just “tourism”). :P

I think of it as “Only rich people used to be able to come here, but now people of more moderate means can, oh noes”.

I think it's probably a convergence of relatively cheaper air travel and also network effects due to social media. For instance not too long ago, I was in a particularly scenic beach Italy, and was surprised to find that, while it had previously been a destination mostly for Italians, this year they experienced a large number of American tourists even though it's a bit complicated to reach and it's hard to navigate that region with English alone. I suspect you could trace that shift to a social media post or a travel blog.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#73

Post by PeterStuer » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:15 PM UTC

Scoundreller wrote: post #65

ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

I’m sure the Barcelona based ULCC Vueling really helped those get in.

In Barecona's case it was the RyanAir booze flights from the UK that destroyed the city.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#74

Post by nmussy » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #70

ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

On a side note, I wish people would stop prefacing their comments with "At the risk of being downvoted..." or "Unpopular opinion here, but..." Just state your point as clearly as you can and allow your arguments to stand or fall on their own. One of the things which drew me to HN was the lack of this kind of language, and I feel like I've seen more and more of it recently.

I completely agree, and this is already mentioned in the guidelines:

  Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#75

Post by ivanhoe » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

Not necessarily, as you don't restrict people from entering the country, you restrict the availability of accommodations and access to certain protected area. In protected nature parks this has been done for years, you need to buy a ticket to get in, and government controls how many people can enter or even if anyone. In many protected parks some areas are completely off-limits to tourists, so that animals are not disturbed or nature destroyed. Or another example, where I live beaches get closed for tourists when turtles come ashore, and it's been done for years, no one is really upset about it. So why is this different? It's just cities instead of parks and law is protecting the local population instead of animals.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#76

Post by jaclaz » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

Maybe it is not the case at hand in Norway, but what I see around (Italy, Florence) is not as much as "overtourism" but rather "impolite tourism", i.e. tourism by masses of people that for whatever reasons lack the bare minimum of common sense and polite behaviour.

The large numbers are of course part of the problem, but it would be minimized if tourists were behaving more properly.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#77

Post by PeterStuer » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

Trying to curb mass tourism leads to Brexit?

Are you one of those people that claims eating a candybar leads to intravenous heroin use?

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#78

Post by skohan » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

ohduran wrote: post #63

skohan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings about this. I used to live in El Raval, and during August I dreaded even leaving the apartment because I knew I would have to fight crowds even to go to the corner and buy milk. I agree with your general premise, that restricting freedom of movement has not historically been a good thing, but I do also think it's a tragic when a beautiful and interesting place gets absolutely overrun by tourists…

Maybe that's a good idea. Is charging more the solution? Effectively you're making tourism more robust in the area, because it becomes the main source of value for what you can do there (as in, the more expensive it is, the weaker other non-touristic options become, because they attract less profit).

> Effectively you're making tourism more robust in the area, because it becomes the main source of value for what you can do there

Not necessarily. For example, a hotel tax could be redistributive: you can take some of the excess value which would only be enjoyed by the business owner and use it to increase the standard of living for the rest of the population in any number of ways (better schools, better roads etc). Also you're making it a bit more expensive to operate that business, so you're putting a thumb on the scale in favor of non-touristic businesses.

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#79

Post by seiko988 » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

bjornsing wrote: post #34

ohduran wrote: post #24

Currently living in Barcelona, where 'overtourism' is a much bigger problem than in Norway IMHO, it feels weird. You start passing bills on restricting tourism, then the natural next step is being hard on immigration, then Brexit. The ability to control who goes in and who goes out usually falls on the hand of those that shouldn't have that kind of power. Edit: Removed "At the risk of being downvoted" as some comment…

Yea it’s a funny word “overtourism”. I guess it’s what you call it when other people go on vacation (whereas when I go on vacation it’s just “tourism”). :P

Same as: 'You're not stuck in traffic, you are traffic'

Re: Norway's Bold Plan to Tackle Overtourism

#80

Post by wellactually » Thu, Sep 12, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

brainwad wrote: post #51

wellactually wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way would be to charge a modest lottery entrance fee and limit the number of winners to a sensible quota.

Rationing is not a very fair way to distribute goods or services to people. Some people may value it just enough to pay the entry fee, while others might value it a lot more, but now they have the same chances of receiving it. If you prohibit people from on-selling their tickets, then you also causes losses when people change their minds but are already locked in by the lottery.

It's not a perfect solution, granted, but it's less likely to result in implicit selection of only the wealthiest people.