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Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#181

Post by ceejayoz »

losvedir wrote: post #150
cameronbrown wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market rates are purely manifestations of drop rates, so a rare item will likely be extremely expensive/unaffordable.

No, this isn't correct. For instance, any drop has a chance of being "painted" and among painted items there's an equal chance of any of several colors. However, because of demand, Titanium White painted items are much more valuable than, say, Burnt Sienna.

That's a weird quibble. If there are ten variants and only one of them is Titanium White, the desirable one is only available in 10% of the drops and is thus rare. Yes, desirability plays a role, but it's still rare.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#182

Post by digitalengineer »

jbms wrote: post #170
scandinavegan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you did good! He needs to learn how to handle this and you're right there guiding him. I have the same situation with my six-year old son and Rocket League loot boxes. He wants to spend all his limited money on them, I think he's wasting it, especially since I see the disappointment when he doesn't get the things he want, but that's a learning experience. It's worse when he once in a while gets a cool skin, becau…

There is permanent damage if you rewire your kids brain chemistry to get addicted to the near-miss of getting something good. Logical explanations don't undo that. I understand from a Louis Theroux documentary on gambling addicts that it is the feeling of the near miss that is actually addictive and not the feeling of the win. Gambling addicts are used to winning and so they don't get a buzz from that.

Yes! Came here to say this. The f*ckery is indeed that. The near-miss makes it addictive. Logic and learning has nothing to do with it. I could not say it any better than how the game developers themselves say it: "“being the only good person is likely going to make you lose money”(Fortnite dev). https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/342130/Former_Fortnite_U...

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#183

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

dTal wrote: post #88
kmlx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've played apex legend for more than 50 hours, and had no idea you could actually spend money in that game. but i also think there's a generational divide: while i would gladly pay games for a leg up (better weapons, higher jumps, that sort of thing), i would never ever buy a "skin" for my character, or anything superficial for that matter. but I see kids getting completely hooked on this. and i don't really get it.…

>i would gladly pay games for a leg up (better weapons, higher jumps, that sort of thing) Why?? What is the point of a game, if you can buy advantages? It reduces the competitive aspect to who can spend more money. I wonder if there's mileage in a multiplayer version of the "I'm rich" app.

I'm with you, and I feel the same about 'unlockable' junk in multiplayer games. It's one of the many trends that I cite as a reason I don't play competitive online multiplayer anymore.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#184

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #57
crispyporkbites wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s exactly the same reason people pay for fashion. The clothes don’t provide practical benefit, yet people still pay 100x more for branding. And you can’t hack this because these are multiplayer games.

Fashion smells like classism to me. I don't see anyone below a certain tax bracket playing the fashion game. Fortnite has already become kind of classist, with the well-off kids bullying people who don't gamble their parent's money for skins. I think the whole system is name-brand evil.

> Fashion smells like classism to me.

That's because that's pretty much exactly what it is. It's a signaling mechanism.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#185

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

demonbae wrote: post #35

Years ago, when I was about 12 years old, I was addicted to RuneScape. Every evening after school, you'd find me cutting down trees, cooking, or venturing into the PvP zone for some awesome gear. One day, someone retired from the game by killing their character, which resulted in all of their items being dropped. I lucked out and snagged more gold than I could have ever imaged. I remember running around the house in…

I used to play a game Puzzle Pirates as a 12 year old, which had an in game currency that could be used to play poker. I easily put 200 hours into that.

And I would say I had a similar experience, you win some, you lose some, but it helps show that it's not just up and up. I haven't spent more than $50 in a casino in my entire life, and the gacha games I have played I haven't spent money outside of the starter packs.

Some people are gonna lose money gambling, with or without games with similar mechanics. I've never seen a study show that the two are in any way correlated. Just that kids are playing these games (with money they get from their parents, if they do spend money).

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#186

Post by jerf »

jbms wrote: post #170
scandinavegan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you did good! He needs to learn how to handle this and you're right there guiding him. I have the same situation with my six-year old son and Rocket League loot boxes. He wants to spend all his limited money on them, I think he's wasting it, especially since I see the disappointment when he doesn't get the things he want, but that's a learning experience. It's worse when he once in a while gets a cool skin, becau…

There is permanent damage if you rewire your kids brain chemistry to get addicted to the near-miss of getting something good. Logical explanations don't undo that. I understand from a Louis Theroux documentary on gambling addicts that it is the feeling of the near miss that is actually addictive and not the feeling of the win. Gambling addicts are used to winning and so they don't get a buzz from that.

I am not disagreeing, but, on the other hand, they will be exposed to this, at at least one order of magnitude higher intensity than I ever was as a kid, or even in my 20s.

I don't have a perfect solution, just pointing out the bind we're in.

I'm actually not terribly prone to the "youth are just all messed up today compared to my generation" idea scheme, but while homo sapiens hasn't changed, the environment has changed radically and the amount of cognitive firepower being brought to bear on us to get our money and manipulate us has skyrocketed in the past decade or two. I've got a 11 and 8 year old and am still struggling through how to deal with it.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#187

Post by jacobush »

beatgammit wrote: post #173
jacobush wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't alcoholism be very correlated with total consumption?

Maybe? There's a lot of other things to consider, such as the number of drinkers and whether it's customary to drink throughout the day or only during a small window (night). Drinking 4+ glasses of wine all at once is quite different from drinking one glass at each meal and one before bed. Extrapolate that to weekly statistics and someone who drinks a lot of wine culturally can look worse than someone who only drinks…

I'd say many are but don't suffer from it except lower life expectancy.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#188

Post by DanBC »

kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #155
DanBC wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The politicians report covers gambling-like mechanics that don't involve money. > 69.Many games contain features that are highly similar to conventional gambling products, without gambling being the primary aim of the game. However, there are concerns that being exposed to such features from a young age might normalise gambling. One parent expressed concern that the game Bricky Farm, which is rated suitable for child…

"there are concerns" - what exactly does that mean? Scientists are concerned? Or parents? Or religious groups? My grandmother hat a toy Roulette table, we liked to play with it occasionally when we visited her. I don't have a gambling addiction. I even gave up World of Warcraft after 2 weeks. (Social Media, however...). We have at least one game that sends notifications on the tablet "the Roulette guy is here again,…

Scientists are concerned. Please read the actual report, not just the BBC coverage. It's pretty good.

> I don't have a gambling addiction.

We're not talking about you. We're talking about a population of about 15 million people.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#189

Post by tablethnuser »

Remember when loot boxes promising valuable rookie cards of baseball players captured America's youth and squandered the nation's fortune back in the 20th century?

Or the countless families devastated by beanie baby addiction?

Me neither. Collectibles aren't the problem.

And it isn't gambling if you can't cash out. Why do you think there's so many casino games in the app stores even though digital gambling is illegal? Cuz they aren't gambling - they're hobbies. Thirty years ago you bought a $20 handheld slot device from the department store. Now you download an app.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#190

Post by [deleted] »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #67
scandinavegan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you did good! He needs to learn how to handle this and you're right there guiding him. I have the same situation with my six-year old son and Rocket League loot boxes. He wants to spend all his limited money on them, I think he's wasting it, especially since I see the disappointment when he doesn't get the things he want, but that's a learning experience. It's worse when he once in a while gets a cool skin, becau…

On the plus side, at least in Rocket League you can trade others for the skins. There is a market rate of items due to this. This is not always the case on apex legends, where some limited offer items are only obtainable from loot boxes.

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