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Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#51

Post by Cthulhu_ »

kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #7

Where does the money come from, that the kids spend? Shouldn't it be the parents concern to limit the spending? While I despise many of the techniques used in modern games to make kids spend money, I also prefer them learning about these things in games, rather than in the real world (with much more money at stake). One thing that cost us a lot of money for example are the "Panini collectible cards", that predate the…

They're definitely a thing in the US, maybe not Panini brand but there's a huge collectors market for baseball cards. Some have a resale values of hundreds if not thousands of dollars.

I was never into these though, it's very much dependent on your own networks - is anyone else collecting them. I did have a short spat of Magic the Gathering though, but never to the point where I bought things off the trading market. I did sell off two rare cards for 30 odd euros apiece, which paid for most of what I had spent on cards. That was nice.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#52

Post by scandinavegan »

ian0 wrote: post #6

Myself and my son play Apex legends. Its an online multiplayer game thats free, but you can optionally pay to unlock cosmetic items like character outfits (skins) etc. He came into some cash recently courtesy of the tooth fairy and asked if we could buy a skin for his favorite character. I said ok. However after id purchased some in game coins we realised that we couldn't actually buy the skin he wanted, instead we h…

No, you did good! He needs to learn how to handle this and you're right there guiding him.

I have the same situation with my six-year old son and Rocket League loot boxes. He wants to spend all his limited money on them, I think he's wasting it, especially since I see the disappointment when he doesn't get the things he want, but that's a learning experience. It's worse when he once in a while gets a cool skin, because in his eyes it makes it all worth it.

I see the money I give him as teaching opportunities. Kids will get in touch with these mechanics as they grow up, and now you have the chance to talk to him about it. Discuss it over and over, it's not a one-time thing, and you've made no permanent damage. Let him know you think it's not worth it, but I wouldn't put a permanent ban on it, as it may make it even more appealing. If he wants other (real-life) stuff later, remind him that he already spent his money on loot boxes and I think they will lose their appeal a bit.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#53

Post by crispyporkbites »

antpls wrote: post #42

If we ban loot boxes in video games, why dont we ban Magic/Pokemon card boosters that you can buy from physical shops? As it's written in the article, problems arise for a minority of children. From the article, we know little about the background of these children and about their parents. It is possible that those children would have developed an addiction to something else if it wasn't video games loot boxes. Yes,…

Honestly those boosters are a scummy product and we would all be better off without them.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#54

Post by Cthulhu_ »

kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #8
nurettin wrote: post #2

How does a free market self-regulate this problem? What is the competitive advantage of not providing chance items?

By providing better games, and parents waking up and closing the money faucet.

That's the thing though - games nowadays are ridiculously good. Doesn't mean they're successful, but they're good.

And they don't even HAVE to be good - I mean pubg looks and runs like shit but it was ridiculously popular. Fortnite's popular battle royale mode was more like a weekend project (iirc), but it had a benefit over pubg in that it had a big professional studio behind it that was able to scale its production up enormously once Fortnite took off.

And Apex was developed from scratch (or well, probably based off of a lot of work done for Titanfall) and intent. Another example is Overwatch, which was salvaged from the remains of Blizzard's Project Titan.

Anyway long story short, a lot of these games are really really good. And that's also why they have microtransactions (according to the manufacturers / publishers) - they take a lot longer and cost a lot more to make. They (feel like they) have to earn money from a game for at least one year, preferably more after the initial release / purchase. (one year for the annual game series - CoD, Assassin's Creed, FIFA, etc, more for the longer term ones that will likely not get a sequel like Apex, Fortnite, even Minecraft).

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#55

Post by hanselot »

antpls wrote: post #42

If we ban loot boxes in video games, why dont we ban Magic/Pokemon card boosters that you can buy from physical shops? As it's written in the article, problems arise for a minority of children. From the article, we know little about the background of these children and about their parents. It is possible that those children would have developed an addiction to something else if it wasn't video games loot boxes. Yes,…

Shall we just ban entropy then?

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#56

Post by Cthulhu_ »

dominicr wrote: post #12

I wonder if the reluctance of the gaming industry to tackle gambling is willful or due to ignorance of the issue. Either they understand the issue but it's their profits at stake, so they'll ignore the potential problems. Or have these stealth gambling mechanisms entered the games gradually and without the industry realising that what it's doing is actually gambling and there repercussions to that.

It's willful and there's seriously smart people and engineers that crunch the numbers and do customer testing to optimize these. It came from mobile and Facebook games (Zynga) and made the transition to console/PC games about ten years ago, in the west it was popularized by Team Fortress 2, followed by multiple games, e.g. FIFA and Mass Effect 3.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#57

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #22
kmlx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've played apex legend for more than 50 hours, and had no idea you could actually spend money in that game. but i also think there's a generational divide: while i would gladly pay games for a leg up (better weapons, higher jumps, that sort of thing), i would never ever buy a "skin" for my character, or anything superficial for that matter. but I see kids getting completely hooked on this. and i don't really get it.…

It’s exactly the same reason people pay for fashion. The clothes don’t provide practical benefit, yet people still pay 100x more for branding. And you can’t hack this because these are multiplayer games.

Fashion smells like classism to me. I don't see anyone below a certain tax bracket playing the fashion game. Fortnite has already become kind of classist, with the well-off kids bullying people who don't gamble their parent's money for skins. I think the whole system is name-brand evil.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#58

Post by otikik »

nurettin wrote: post #2

How does a free market self-regulate this problem? What is the competitive advantage of not providing chance items?

> How does a free market self-regulate this problem?

On a free market, if someone has it and someone else wants it, that's all that's needed. A truly free market can not self-regulate against gambling, drugs, child pornography, or slavery.

> What is the competitive advantage of not providing chance items?

Engaging on these practices isn't exactly riskless. State legislators could decide that "chance items" are, in fact "gambling". And that your company has been doing that to children. So a lot of "fun" can ensue: mass-action lawsuits, cessation of activity in a whole country, incarcelation, etc.

The "competitive advantage" is that your competitors might simply become illegal.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#59

Post by goatinaboat »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #22
kmlx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've played apex legend for more than 50 hours, and had no idea you could actually spend money in that game. but i also think there's a generational divide: while i would gladly pay games for a leg up (better weapons, higher jumps, that sort of thing), i would never ever buy a "skin" for my character, or anything superficial for that matter. but I see kids getting completely hooked on this. and i don't really get it.…

It’s exactly the same reason people pay for fashion. The clothes don’t provide practical benefit, yet people still pay 100x more for branding. And you can’t hack this because these are multiplayer games.

I don’t think the analogy carries because there are no “default” clothes. You have to make some sort of decision about what to wear, even the decision to avoid fashion trends is a form of fashion itself.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#60

Post by kmjg88nvf8 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #54
kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By providing better games, and parents waking up and closing the money faucet.

That's the thing though - games nowadays are ridiculously good. Doesn't mean they're successful, but they're good. And they don't even HAVE to be good - I mean pubg looks and runs like shit but it was ridiculously popular. Fortnite's popular battle royale mode was more like a weekend project (iirc), but it had a benefit over pubg in that it had a big professional studio behind it that was able to scale its production…

Maybe there isn't really a problem with all of those games. To adults it seems ridiculous to spend money on virtual items, but to be honest, a lot of other things kids would spend their money on also seem ridiculous.

If those games cost a lot of money to make, perhaps it is fair to ask for money for some items.

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