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Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

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141–150 of 319 posts

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#141
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you mean, next time the kid has money would be spent again? Teaching kids to gamble is a horrid idea. >Also perhaps better than spending the money on sweets. Yeah, the kid must be overweight as well. What about books, toys or cinema? And for instance I don't mind my kid having an ice cream with 6 (outside school) trainings a week

The idea of pocket money is usually that kids can spend it on what they want. That includes sweets. Although of course parents can say "no" - but that goes for virtual items, too. Teaching kids to gamble - I would see it as the opposite, teaching them not to gamble. They will be confronted with gambling opportunities all through their lives, with higher stakes. Better to learn with pocket money. Here in Germany afaik…

If people learnt not to gamble by gambling there would be nobody with gambling problems. Teaching kids how not to gamble by gambling can be pretty bad for people who have addictive personalities, getting that gambling high and wanting to replicate that again and again.

Teaching your kid it is a waste of money and not to endorse that practice might be a better choice.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#142

Years ago, when I was about 12 years old, I was addicted to RuneScape. Every evening after school, you'd find me cutting down trees, cooking, or venturing into the PvP zone for some awesome gear. One day, someone retired from the game by killing their character, which resulted in all of their items being dropped. I lucked out and snagged more gold than I could have ever imaged. I remember running around the house in…

When we talk to people who have problems with gambling we tend to see that they all started young, and had an early win.

You can see how if you'd gambled this huge amount of gold, and then won, that things may be different?

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't what actually happens in reality because highly unethical behavior is distasteful to most people and for the most part people don't want to work alongside unethical people. Yes, and because of that, nothing highly unethical ever happens on the market. No wide-scale environmental destruction, no robbing whole populations of their livelihoods, no murders for control over assets, or just to cut down on safe…

>Yes, and because of that, nothing highly unethical ever happens on the market. This is quite the leap. The world is a big place full of people and of course there will always be unethical people doing unethical things somewhere, that's a fact of life. But you musn't be so cynical to think that the outliers are the norm when they aren't. If unethical behavior was the norm society wouldn't function, which is what the…

There's degree to unethical behavior, but I've become disillusioned and no longer thing it's an outlier on the market. Some things I've seen:

- When writing the paragraph you quoted the beginning of, I had mostly particular situations involving large corporations in mind. You see such shenanigans featured regularly on HN, and if people are outraged, they aren't really surprised.

- People I know personally worked in "pedestrian", small-business areas like e-commerce, customer service, shipping&handling, grocery stores, restaurants and medical care. I've heard plenty about practices that are common in these businesses - like bribing people to remove negative ratings, blatant copyright violation on promotional material, washing stale food with detergent to remove the smell and selling it as fresh, microwaving food and adding burn marks and then selling it as grilled, etc. Minor and major issues.

- Then there's plenty of companies like Groupon or AirBnB that an ethical person would shut down, or at least heavily rework their business model, upon learning how big a negative impact they have on the market at large.

- Then there's the whole advertising industry, which turns a lot of otherwise friendly interactions into adversarial experiences.

A lot of this is caused not (just) by ethical deficiency of people involved, but through market pressure. Consider grocery stores washing stale food: I don't know of a worker who's happy about it (but they do this, or else they lose jobs). I'm convinced managers aren't happy about it either - but they have an inventory that will otherwise go to waste, and they need to figure something out or else it's their job.

My standard of ethics is that of friendly cooperation. That standard is routinely broken in interactions with businesses, big and small (and I do my best to keep trading with businesses that do not break that standard). Thus I conclude it's the market at large, and not some occasional bad actor.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#144
post #42

If we ban loot boxes in video games, why dont we ban Magic/Pokemon card boosters that you can buy from physical shops? As it's written in the article, problems arise for a minority of children. From the article, we know little about the background of these children and about their parents. It is possible that those children would have developed an addiction to something else if it wasn't video games loot boxes. Yes,…

>If we ban loot boxes in video games, why dont we ban Magic/Pokemon card boosters that you can buy from physical shops?

Yes please! Or at least just the slot machine aspect. It would be great if you could buy a box of cards and know exactly what's inside.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you did good! He needs to learn how to handle this and you're right there guiding him. I have the same situation with my six-year old son and Rocket League loot boxes. He wants to spend all his limited money on them, I think he's wasting it, especially since I see the disappointment when he doesn't get the things he want, but that's a learning experience. It's worse when he once in a while gets a cool skin, becau…

I mean when I was a kid you'd get this sticker album for your favourite thing(be it football players, star wars, whatever) and I'd always beg mum to get me yet another sticker pack so I could complete my collection. There were always stickers that I really really wanted and yeah, the disappointment of going through a few packs and not getting what you wanted was very real. I think ultimately, this is the same thing -…

> I think ultimately, this is the same thing

There's one big difference. Those stickers were immediately tradeable. Actually exchanging the missing pieces with others was most of the fun. If you can only rely on the packs, that's all social fun cut out.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean when I was a kid you'd get this sticker album for your favourite thing(be it football players, star wars, whatever) and I'd always beg mum to get me yet another sticker pack so I could complete my collection. There were always stickers that I really really wanted and yeah, the disappointment of going through a few packs and not getting what you wanted was very real. I think ultimately, this is the same thing -…

I don't really think "just digitized" captures the problem with these boxes. Imagine a fairly boring interface that has Pokemon cards or football stickers in. Like your hands holding them and trading them and sticking them on things. Now contrast that to the loot box stuff that has exciting music, flashing lights, A-B tested into oblivion, the money comes from some ethereal 'account' rather than involving an actual e…

Maybe just a little bit of a way to remove the dopamine high, or make it slightly worse, would be to have the kid physically hand you the money before they open the case so they feel the pain of spending the cash.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#147
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> France has one of the highest alcohol consumption rates in Europe, with the country trailing behind only Estonia, Lithuania and the Czech Republic in the quantities of alcohol it drinks, according to the World Health Organization.

I think most parents would be more worried about alcoholism and/or risky levels of drunkenness than total consumption.

Wouldn't alcoholism be very correlated with total consumption?

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean when I was a kid you'd get this sticker album for your favourite thing(be it football players, star wars, whatever) and I'd always beg mum to get me yet another sticker pack so I could complete my collection. There were always stickers that I really really wanted and yeah, the disappointment of going through a few packs and not getting what you wanted was very real. I think ultimately, this is the same thing -…

I don't really think "just digitized" captures the problem with these boxes. Imagine a fairly boring interface that has Pokemon cards or football stickers in. Like your hands holding them and trading them and sticking them on things. Now contrast that to the loot box stuff that has exciting music, flashing lights, A-B tested into oblivion, the money comes from some ethereal 'account' rather than involving an actual e…

I was part of the development on a game which had loot boxes and we had a lot of talk about the reveal, building excitement, etc.

One team member had previous experience from working on casino games and he said that at least there they had clear rules for how they were allowed to handle it and who they were allowed to target.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, and because of that, nothing highly unethical ever happens on the market. This is quite the leap. The world is a big place full of people and of course there will always be unethical people doing unethical things somewhere, that's a fact of life. But you musn't be so cynical to think that the outliers are the norm when they aren't. If unethical behavior was the norm society wouldn't function, which is what the…

There's degree to unethical behavior, but I've become disillusioned and no longer thing it's an outlier on the market. Some things I've seen: - When writing the paragraph you quoted the beginning of, I had mostly particular situations involving large corporations in mind. You see such shenanigans featured regularly on HN, and if people are outraged, they aren't really surprised . - People I know personally worked in…

We seem to disagree on what unethical behavior means it seems. For instance, I don't think Groupon, Airbnb or advertising in general are unethical at all. I can understand why you have the position you do if your meter for unethical behavior is like this, but I don't think this meter will do you much good in life. Either way, we won't really get any further on this argument when we have such basic disagreements so this is where I'll stop.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the plus side, at least in Rocket League you can trade others for the skins. There is a market rate of items due to this. This is not always the case on apex legends, where some limited offer items are only obtainable from loot boxes.

The market rates are purely manifestations of drop rates, so a rare item will likely be extremely expensive/unaffordable.

No, this isn't correct. For instance, any drop has a chance of being "painted" and among painted items there's an equal chance of any of several colors. However, because of demand, Titanium White painted items are much more valuable than, say, Burnt Sienna.
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