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Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also it just seems to be water, they’re obviously not 100% sure it’s not something else that’s reading as water.

How easy is it to have different mixtures of substances that lead to similar enough absorption apectra that they are indistinguishable with the available resolution and sensitivity?

Not very.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#342

Some caveats per Marina Koren https://twitter.com/marinakoren/status/1171873631808438273 1. This planet probably doesn’t have a solid surface 2. Being in the “habitable zone” doesn’t mean a planet is habitable 3. The detection is of water molecules, chances are the water only exists as vapour in the atmosphere of this small gas giant. 4. If you ask 10 astronomers about this you will get 11 opinions

> Being in the “habitable zone” doesn’t mean a planet is habitable True. Being a spooky near twin of Earth isn't necessarily enough. The air inside popcorn factories is basically identical to the Earth's atmosphere, but breathing in diacetyl, a butter flavor you'll find in that air, will kill you a few months or years later. Popcorn lung really undermined my naive view that we would one day be able to run a scan or a…

That'd be something, people travel for 30 years to a distant planet, die four days later because something in the atmosphere we didn't account for and did not filter properly, or a crystalline fungus that eats away our suits.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#343
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that sounds pretty awesome if you invested your funds well. I'd definitely be willing to be the first person who did that.

Where can you invest that would still recognize those funds as yours after 222 years?

I admit I have some bias here being British, and just assuming the banking system won’t go under. I think if I was actually going to execute on this I’d end up finding a bunch of countries with well-established trust law and spread it between them.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a startup founder, I learned the hard way to not assume progress will ever be exponential.

Over any timeframe, the rate of progress between the beginning and ending of the timeframe can be phrased as exponential for some exponent. It's just a matter of accurately estimating what that exponent is. I take your point though - hypergrowth cannot be sustained - and estimating that exponent is fairly valueless if volatility is too high. This is all just math fun that won't be valuable if we bump along for hundre…

Thats true considering only two datapoints. It gets more interesting when more datapoints follow an exponential rule, say subsequent disruptions, no of transistors on processors or stock market indices.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#346

I got into the Wait Calculation[1] a few weeks back and made a Jupyter notebook out of it. At our current max speed (692,000 km/hr, stated max speed of Parker Space Probe), it would take about 173,000 years to get to that planet. We could instead choose to Wait and grow our tech. By picking a constant annual growth rate and then doing some calculus to find the minimum, we can calculate the shortest possible time it w…

Does that include slowing down and stopping, or would you be at max speed by the time you got there? I always thought that was a very well thought out aspect of The Expanse: spend half the trip accelerating, then flip the ship around and spend the other half slowing down (aka accelerating in the opposite direction).

Disclaimer: Just an arm-chair Space Engineers player here.

> I always thought that was a very well thought out aspect of The Expanse: spend half the trip accelerating, then flip the ship around and spend the other half slowing down (aka accelerating in the opposite direction).

With current technology you would not do this, since that means using extra fuel that weighs a lot and thus increases the force required for the same amount of acceleration as you'd get with less fuel and less burn.

Of course that changes drastically if the fuel required for more acceleration (and its container) is very light-weight. I would assume fusion or fission based thrusters would be better in this regard, however I think currently those produce very little acceleration in a vacuum compared to combustion thrusters.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#347
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't habitable even if it's a super Earth because the gravity would be 8g if it's 8x the mass of Earth.

That's not how it works. The moon is 1% of Earth's mass, but has 16% of our gravity. I'm not entirely clear on the deciding factors, but it's probably mostly density.

It depends on the mass of the planet and the diameter. Since planets are usually sphere shaped, it effectively means that the gravity grows with diameter (for same density) and vice versa (for same diameter, grows if density grows). Moon is about 4 times smaller (for same density, gravity would be about 4 times smaller) but Moon has lower density as well (about 60% of Earth) so it comes down to those 16%.

Rough napkin formulas below. Apologies for formatting)

F=ma F(g) = GMm/(r^2) ma=GMm/(r^2) a=GM/r^2

Volume of a sphere = (4/3)pir^3 mass of a planet = density volume M=ro(4/3)pir^3

a=(Gro(4/3)pir^3)/r^2 a=Gro(4/3)pi*r

given that G, 4/3 and pi are constants, it comes just to density multiplied with diameter.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#348
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't habitable even if it's a super Earth because the gravity would be 8g if it's 8x the mass of Earth.

That's not how it works. The moon is 1% of Earth's mass, but has 16% of our gravity. I'm not entirely clear on the deciding factors, but it's probably mostly density.

Higher density allows the surface to be closer to the center of mass, so the gravity there will be higher. Stand on a hovering platform 6300km from the Moons center and the gravity will be just 1% of Earths, since distance beeing equal, the only deciding factor will be the mass.

That's why the gravity on the surface of neutron stars is so high, even when the mass is the same as our Sun.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#349
post #234
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I think I’m closer to understanding matters of time and space...

Here's a quick analogy to help (loosely adapted from Brian Greene): You're on a grass field, sitting on one of those riding lawnmower thingies, with a broken throttle. It's moving at a fixed speed of 1mph. You can't ever change its velocity. But you can steer it. If you are going precisely east-west, then it means you're not going north-south. The more you go north-south, the less you'll be going east-west. If you're…

I like this analogy, but I think an even bigger problem than distance contraction is that in fact the lawnmower can go east-west on one axis, but only towards the north on the other axis, towards the future, at least as far as we have observed in macroscopic systems.

This may not be a problem for some definitions of time, but for the notion of time which goes from past to future, I don't think the analogy holds very well.

Re: Water found on a potentially life-friendly alien planet

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a guy who lives in a finite world where energy comes mainly from fossil fue in a way or another, I do not assume that any constant progress in energy supply is something achievable.

No, and traveling near lightspeed is likely hardly possible. However, fusion will likely become a reality within our lifetimes, and if we can build fusion powered spaceships, we could likely reach a fraction of the speed of light, say, 0.2c. I don't think it's that crazy to think we could do that a few centuries from now. That still means it would take over 1000 years to reach that planet. Personally, I think that if…

Besides fusion I think hibernation will also become a reality within this century.

This will make the 22 year trip to Alpha Centauri more palatable.

1000 year trip in a single lifetime will require some life extension as well

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