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Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#61

Post by baybal2 »

ian0 wrote: post #6

Myself and my son play Apex legends. Its an online multiplayer game thats free, but you can optionally pay to unlock cosmetic items like character outfits (skins) etc. He came into some cash recently courtesy of the tooth fairy and asked if we could buy a skin for his favorite character. I said ok. However after id purchased some in game coins we realised that we couldn't actually buy the skin he wanted, instead we h…

> Watching his excitement opening up the boxes and his eventual disappointment at not receiving the one he wanted - plus subsequent enthusiasm to buy more coins courtesy of some lesser items granted, I realised Id made a horrible mistake. Id basically introduced a virtual pub gambling machine to a young kid.

I'm afraid you are going through what Chinese and to some extend Russian parents went through 1 and 2 decades ago. Chinese parents understood long ago what businesses like Google and Tencent were are all about. In China, they call them "pocket slot machines" The very reason they link the game to your bank account is to milk money from you, or god forbid, your children.

My former high school classmate who did not manage to leave Russia is running a typical "smartphone fixer" kiosk. He said few years ago that the most common request he gets from people is to "remove Google nagware and lock, block or delete Google Pay" so their child will never ever buy anything "in that Internet thing," and do the same for clickfarming "social" apps.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#62

Post by xxs »

kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #37
ian0 wrote: post #6

Myself and my son play Apex legends. Its an online multiplayer game thats free, but you can optionally pay to unlock cosmetic items like character outfits (skins) etc. He came into some cash recently courtesy of the tooth fairy and asked if we could buy a skin for his favorite character. I said ok. However after id purchased some in game coins we realised that we couldn't actually buy the skin he wanted, instead we h…

Once his money has run out, he might have learned a valuable lesson. Also perhaps better than spending the money on sweets.

you mean, next time the kid has money would be spent again?

Teaching kids to gamble is a horrid idea.

>Also perhaps better than spending the money on sweets.

Yeah, the kid must be overweight as well. What about books, toys or cinema? And for instance I don't mind my kid having an ice cream with 6 (outside school) trainings a week

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#64

Post by sabas123 »

piokoch wrote: post #19
nurettin wrote: post #2

How does a free market self-regulate this problem? What is the competitive advantage of not providing chance items?

I would say that kid's parents will notice that a given game is addictive and costs a lot and will just forbid children to play it? Side note. Free market (as imagined by Adam Smith, Hayek and others) does not mean that greed and income maximization is everything. The same way democracy does not mean that majority can do everything ignoring minority. Without ethics neither democracy nor free market can exist. Some pe…

> I would say that kid's parents will notice that a given game is addictive and costs a lot and will just forbid children to play it?

They can also become "successful" betters starting out from nothing, and in such a case I would be suprised if your typical parrent would notice (see csgo/dota skins)

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#65

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

nurettin wrote: post #2

How does a free market self-regulate this problem? What is the competitive advantage of not providing chance items?

In my experience, a free market does not self-regulate in order to gain a competitive advantage. The self-regulation I've seen has been done in order to avoid punishment by the state or federal government. The formation of the ESRB, for example, or the manta tourism permitting system on Moku O Keawe.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#66

Post by kmjg88nvf8 »

xxs wrote: post #62
kmjg88nvf8 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once his money has run out, he might have learned a valuable lesson. Also perhaps better than spending the money on sweets.

you mean, next time the kid has money would be spent again? Teaching kids to gamble is a horrid idea. >Also perhaps better than spending the money on sweets. Yeah, the kid must be overweight as well. What about books, toys or cinema? And for instance I don't mind my kid having an ice cream with 6 (outside school) trainings a week

The idea of pocket money is usually that kids can spend it on what they want. That includes sweets. Although of course parents can say "no" - but that goes for virtual items, too.

Teaching kids to gamble - I would see it as the opposite, teaching them not to gamble. They will be confronted with gambling opportunities all through their lives, with higher stakes. Better to learn with pocket money.

Here in Germany afaik there is also a law that children are not able to do business transactions. That means if you sell something to a kid, the parents can come back to you and say the transaction is invalid. I wonder how that works out with virtual goods and games?

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#67

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

scandinavegan wrote: post #52
ian0 wrote: post #6

Myself and my son play Apex legends. Its an online multiplayer game thats free, but you can optionally pay to unlock cosmetic items like character outfits (skins) etc. He came into some cash recently courtesy of the tooth fairy and asked if we could buy a skin for his favorite character. I said ok. However after id purchased some in game coins we realised that we couldn't actually buy the skin he wanted, instead we h…

No, you did good! He needs to learn how to handle this and you're right there guiding him. I have the same situation with my six-year old son and Rocket League loot boxes. He wants to spend all his limited money on them, I think he's wasting it, especially since I see the disappointment when he doesn't get the things he want, but that's a learning experience. It's worse when he once in a while gets a cool skin, becau…

On the plus side, at least in Rocket League you can trade others for the skins. There is a market rate of items due to this.

This is not always the case on apex legends, where some limited offer items are only obtainable from loot boxes.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#68

Post by xxs »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #22
kmlx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've played apex legend for more than 50 hours, and had no idea you could actually spend money in that game. but i also think there's a generational divide: while i would gladly pay games for a leg up (better weapons, higher jumps, that sort of thing), i would never ever buy a "skin" for my character, or anything superficial for that matter. but I see kids getting completely hooked on this. and i don't really get it.…

It’s exactly the same reason people pay for fashion. The clothes don’t provide practical benefit, yet people still pay 100x more for branding. And you can’t hack this because these are multiplayer games.

>same reason people pay for fashion.

Except when I buy a shirt or jacket or shoes, I don't buy a ticket and get something random with a minor chance to get what I actually want.

Then immediately I can sell it back (WOW!) for less than I have bought it and try again and again, yeah.

Your analogy is totally off.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#69

Post by cameronbrown »

JauntyHatAngle wrote: post #67
scandinavegan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you did good! He needs to learn how to handle this and you're right there guiding him. I have the same situation with my six-year old son and Rocket League loot boxes. He wants to spend all his limited money on them, I think he's wasting it, especially since I see the disappointment when he doesn't get the things he want, but that's a learning experience. It's worse when he once in a while gets a cool skin, becau…

On the plus side, at least in Rocket League you can trade others for the skins. There is a market rate of items due to this. This is not always the case on apex legends, where some limited offer items are only obtainable from loot boxes.

The market rates are purely manifestations of drop rates, so a rare item will likely be extremely expensive/unaffordable.

Re: Ban kids from loot box gambling in games

#70

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

antpls wrote: post #42

If we ban loot boxes in video games, why dont we ban Magic/Pokemon card boosters that you can buy from physical shops? As it's written in the article, problems arise for a minority of children. From the article, we know little about the background of these children and about their parents. It is possible that those children would have developed an addiction to something else if it wasn't video games loot boxes. Yes,…

Because magic the gathering cards are an actual item tradeable for actual money to other players and resellers. It's still questionable in many ways, sure.

But many of these virtual items are closed economies with the supply entirely owned by the producer of the game. These have no intrinsic value outside of this closed system and there is no ability to exchange them for real money.

I'm not saying booster packs are necessarily morally correct either, but want to highlight that there is a qualitative difference between them and most loot box economies.

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