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California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

nytimes.com

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Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#681

Post by mdorazio »

ben_jones wrote: post #598
djrogers wrote: post #378

It seems to me that an evolution of the current Uber/Lyft model would allow for the gig-economy to continue. Today Uber/Lyft being the exclusive determinants of both cost of rides and pay for drivers, which leads to 'prividing rides' being their core business. If NewCo were to build an app/platform that allowed drivers to bid on rides in real time (perhaps with driver determined presets for price floors, distance, et…

This would be terrible for a large number of Uber riders. Want to go across the Bay Bridge? $100. Airport? $100. Want to get picked up after a night of drinking? $100. Want to get picked up in a poor neighborhood? Not happening. All the problems associated with taxis: poor service, scams, racism, extortive pricing, will return.

I don't see how this follows. A marketplace Uber would basically have drivers setting price per mile or price per distance rates within their acceptable geography and probably a rider score variable. Riders would enter a destination and either be presented with driver options (including ratings) or be paired with the lowest bidding driver. Payments, ratings, dispatch, etc. would all still be handled by Uber, as would disputes.

You'd end up pretty close to today's Uber experience, just with more expensive rides (not subsidized, so likely pretty close to current taxi rates in most places) and probably an extra step in the hailing process for riders.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#682

Post by erik_seaberg »

WalterBright wrote: post #129
cheriot wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those of us lucky enough to be in good health It's a common refrain that only people with health problems need health care, but that's just not true. Risk has a price. That's why health care and life insurance for healthy people is not free. Good health just makes it easier to pretend that risk isn't there. Tying health care to employment is a historical accident long overdue for change.

> Tying health care to employment is a historical accident long overdue for change. Ironically, it came about because of wage freezes imposed by the government during WW2. Employers had to find something to offer to attract workers, and employer-paid insurance did the trick. The trap, though, was that employer paid insurance was paid with pre-tax dollars, while if you bought it yourself you'd pay in post-tax dollars,…

Also adverse selection. Healthy people are tempted to only pay for catastrophic or no coverage, so a lot of individual policy buyers are sicker than the average employee in a group policy (because large companies cover everyone).

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#683

Post by jshowa3 »

ethanwillis wrote: post #556
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Profitable to Uber, or to the driver? Uber gets a ~30% cut of what the rider pays (though it varies per ride).

I meant profitable to Uber.

I highly doubt this is accurate. There's no reason why drivers can't maintain the same hours but still be considered an employee.

I would love to be the health insurance provider getting Uber as a client. I'd be freaking rich on premiums.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#684

Post by jshowa3 »

labrador wrote: post #504
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I don't understand why people take gig jobs. Think of the opportunity costs. First off, Uber drivers don't make that much. Then you have vehicle depreciation and maintenance costs. You need to carry an insurance rider that covers rideshare driving. You also need to pay for your own health care. When you add up all these expenses, plus the desire for a living wage, there is no way drivers can be making eno…

I drive Lyft and Uber in the SF Bay Area. I'm a retired computer programmer and I need to supplement my income to have spending money. I'm on MediCal which is a great health insurance program and easy to get on if you are low income. I'm actually making really good money driving. When I am smart about knowing when and where to be I can make a too much money even working part time, by which I mean I will disqualify my…

This would be solved by universal healthcare.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#685

Post by mdorazio »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #254
pnongrata wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, do you have a source for the claim that uber is profitable in most of the USA? That goes against their disclosed info of huge annual losses.

It’s in their earnings report: https://www.businessinsider.com/where-uber-spends-its-money-... .

Where? I don't see any mention of profitability in CA in your link or in their actual report [1]. You might be referring to the "Results by Offering and Segment" where they report growth in the US and $1.8B in revenue, but they go pretty far to hide where their losses are actually coming from in relation to rideshare. It's not at all clear to me that they are profitable in any rideshare market.

[1] https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-det...

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#686

Post by djrogers »

ben_jones wrote: post #598
djrogers wrote: post #378

It seems to me that an evolution of the current Uber/Lyft model would allow for the gig-economy to continue. Today Uber/Lyft being the exclusive determinants of both cost of rides and pay for drivers, which leads to 'prividing rides' being their core business. If NewCo were to build an app/platform that allowed drivers to bid on rides in real time (perhaps with driver determined presets for price floors, distance, et…

This would be terrible for a large number of Uber riders. Want to go across the Bay Bridge? $100. Airport? $100. Want to get picked up after a night of drinking? $100. Want to get picked up in a poor neighborhood? Not happening. All the problems associated with taxis: poor service, scams, racism, extortive pricing, will return.

That's not how competition works...

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#687

Post by mdorazio »

mcntall wrote: post #261

We are looking at more wire tapes being built in California. It makes one wonder whether Cali would implode if Silicon Valley had a rapid decline

Fun fact: Silicon valley isn't even near the top of the list in GDP-contributing industries for California [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_California#Sectors

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#688

Post by unksdfnaajhfjk »

subhobroto wrote: post #554
chongli wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to protect workers is to shift the burden of health care and other costly benefits onto the government, supported by taxes. Then there is no risk to hiring a new employee beyond the wages you pay them. The US public does not want this, though, and the war of words over universal health care has led to incredibly deep entrenchment on the side of those opposed. All this despite the mountain of evidence from oth…

> The way to protect workers is to shift the burden of health care and other costly benefits onto the government, supported by taxes Yes, it's clear that our prosperity hinges on how quickly we decouple health care from our employers. Employers don't want to be in the business of providing healthcare to their employees and its painfully obvious. I just don't understand why smart people think it's a good idea for anyo…

> The value the government brings here is extreme negotiating ability with the private insurance providers that individual citizens lack.

This is not good, it distorts the market too much. Look at the negotiating power Spotify and Pandora have over musicians. Pandora negotiates rock-bottom prices with musicians on behalf of its consumers and the consumers think it's great because low prices. Long-term you've decreased compensation for becoming a musician, sound engineer, etc. and harmed the entire music ecosystem.

It's a trade-off between clear short-term gains and diffuse long-term costs.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#689

Post by Aeolun »

scardine wrote: post #404
quaquaqua1 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is definitely a causation for high unemployment by such laws. But it actually goes even deeper. In France for example, it is difficult for a company to fire an employee once they are legally hired. Oracle, for example, has a policy of initiating an "intra-country transfer" where the employee is mandated to relocate from Paris to Montpellier. Not everyone wants to uproot their family like that. And then if they…

Interesting, so in France you can't fire someone but can legally make his life miserable through constant relocation? Brutal...

I guess it’s more like in France, instead of being fired with no recourse, you can opt to be relocated instead (at least that’s what it works out to).

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#690

Post by bllguo »

jack_jennings wrote: post #548
bllguo wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it seems like an apathetic kind of want. There are degrees imo; if the people truly wanted something they would exert more effort than this showing. As it stands people may say they want it in polls but won't even vote for politicians that will make it a reality.

Don’t confuse the apathy of the politicians that can run for office (and have the financial backing to do so), with the apathy of voters.

uh, can't agree there. i will absolutely blame voters, myself included, for voting in apathetic politicians. pointing fingers like this is the mindset that gets nothing done in this country.
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