Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 114 posts

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#91

Post by ergothus »

ksdale wrote: post #48
ergothus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your take is valid, but also missing large areas. Even if they AREN'T bullied for lack, they'll miss out on all the socialization. When I was a teen people talked on the phone, they hung out at the mall. I barely did. When not at school, I stayed at home to care for my younger brother and make sure dinner was made (child of a working single mom). I went out of state to my dad's place every summer, so I never…

Counterpoint, I had all the socialization I could possibly want growing up, and as an adult I had to unlearn a lot of social behaviors that I had learned when I was surrounded exclusively by my peers. I personally think that socialization is often meant as "acting like the popular kids act" (though it doesn't sound like you're using it that way) and as my kids grow up, I am regularly shocked at how crappy kids are to…

I think you're taking a problem of "opportunity + practice = success" and pointing out that you had opportunity but not success, and therefore opportunity is irrelevant.

> socialization is often meant as "acting like the popular kids act" (though it doesn't sound like you're using it that way)

My usage is more a matter of "understanding the social skills that are not formally taught". In particular, I'm talking about things like understanding social cues, when/how to be supportive, etc. There are absolutely negative social skills that can be learned this way, so you're correct there. But even a gang of jerks has social structures and interactions, and someone that never got much practice/exposure at those will struggle to even succeed in joining a gang of jerks. (Not that doing so is such a great aspiration)

> I am regularly shocked at how crappy kids are to each other

Totally. I recall previous articles (I believe on HN) about how parents hate the shows on the Disney channel because they demonstrate/teach terrible social skills for tweens. (Bratty children, idiot parents, etc).

Putting kids in a group won't teach them how to be good people and I didn't mean to imply that. It _will_ teach them to be a social group. These ideas are orthogonal.

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#92

Post by notacoward »

jonstokes wrote: post #34

I think it's amazing that on a site that's supposedly filled with tech geeks, so few commenters seem to know the difference between spending time alone in your room in front a non-networked PC learning to code, and being glued to a networked smartphone no matter where you are, taking in a feed and waiting for the dopamine hit from a "like" or a share. Anyway, the public-spirited side of me sees responses like the one…

Yeah, cripple your kids by allowing them to participate in adolescent social life the same way their peers do, making it easier to make and maintain such ties later in life. What a horrible fate.

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#93

Post by notacoward »

opportune wrote: post #78
docker_up wrote: post #11

My friend recently got his sons a smartphone and he says their relationship has been irrevocably damaged because of it. Not because they are rude, etc. But when they used to talk, now it's complete silence and them looking at their phones, chatting with their friends or girlfriends. He hates the phones now because there is no socialization whatsoever with his kids. The power of the phone is that strong, and he had su…

I don’t think this is about the smartphone so much as lack of etiquette around the smartphone. Unless his son is too young to have a phone he should be able to discuss ettiquette like no phone at the dinner table or while we are talking.

I agree about etiquette. Using a phone while with someone doesn't bother me in and of itself. Shutting others out does, whether it's in person or online. The "with people but texting" scenario is difficult because there's no established norm for how to balance the competing social needs.

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#94

Post by ksdale »

ergothus wrote: post #91
ksdale wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint, I had all the socialization I could possibly want growing up, and as an adult I had to unlearn a lot of social behaviors that I had learned when I was surrounded exclusively by my peers. I personally think that socialization is often meant as "acting like the popular kids act" (though it doesn't sound like you're using it that way) and as my kids grow up, I am regularly shocked at how crappy kids are to…

I think you're taking a problem of "opportunity + practice = success" and pointing out that you had opportunity but not success, and therefore opportunity is irrelevant. > socialization is often meant as "acting like the popular kids act" (though it doesn't sound like you're using it that way) My usage is more a matter of "understanding the social skills that are not formally taught". In particular, I'm talking about…

Thank you for your reply!

I mostly wanted to provide a countervailing anecdote rather than any sort of fixed rule.

I would say that I definitely had success, by your definition of social. I've never had a problem making friends, but socialization as a kid didn't benefit me long term because being social with pre-teens and teenagers is useless training for being social with adults in a professional environment, which is where I now spend most of my time. I basically had to learn to be social all over again.

So I guess I take issue with the idea that people need to be around their peers to learn to be social at all. I agree that social skills are not formally taught, and that they need to be learned, but I think all that is required to accomplish this is that children are around people who interact with them. If they have that, I think the cost of them not being involved in whatever kids these days are doing is not that high, and definitely not as high as they might think it is in the moment.

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#95

Post by z0r »

leetcrew wrote: post #85
josephwegner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're spot on, and this is part of the reason I will have "no phones* after dinner/school/whatever" when my kids become smartphone age. I expect I will have similar rules about headphones in cars, or tablets at restaurant tables. If my relationship with my kid's is falling apart, I want to have some sort of signal that alerts me to it happening. I want it to feel awkward, so that I know to fix it. If the dam…

I think my point suggests the opposite conclusion: arbitrary electronics bans are counterproductive. if your kid chooses the device over interacting with you, that is a strong sign that something is wrong; this is the signal you are looking for! if you remove the choice by prohibiting the device during "family time", you are just removing a source of information. my parents never told us we couldn't use our phones at…

Some patterns work in some families and don't in others. I don't believe a permissive parenting style is going to work equally well everywhere. A kid choosing to do something bad for them is often just a signal of youth and inexperience.

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#96

Post by leetcrew »

z0r wrote: post #95
leetcrew wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my point suggests the opposite conclusion: arbitrary electronics bans are counterproductive. if your kid chooses the device over interacting with you, that is a strong sign that something is wrong; this is the signal you are looking for! if you remove the choice by prohibiting the device during "family time", you are just removing a source of information. my parents never told us we couldn't use our phones at…

Some patterns work in some families and don't in others. I don't believe a permissive parenting style is going to work equally well everywhere. A kid choosing to do something bad for them is often just a signal of youth and inexperience.

I just think there's an important difference between "this activity is harmful in excess, so you may only do it for n minutes per day" and "I've decided I want to interact with you at this time every day, so you are not allowed to use your phone then".

I think it's okay to set reasonable limits on screentime. I don't think you should force your child to interact with you; that seems kind of unhealthy.

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#98

Post by subpixel »

lancesells wrote: post #31
y4mi wrote: post #7

This is clearly written by an adult who forgot how most children behave. If they're the only ones without a smartphone, they'll be single out. Especially with how prevalent online communication has become. They might not be bullied (though they probably will be), but growing up as the outsider comes with is own can of worms. They'll most likely survive it, but it'll have it's effect... But everything has consequences…

I have a son around the same age as the authors and I've definitely thought about it. It's an addicting device to both adults and children so there is some merit to not having one. That said, my kid is a musician and gets to connect and collaborate with other kids in different states and countries from all walks of life. I find that pretty amazing and a plus to him having a smartphone.

Tablet solves for that, no?

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#99

Post by [deleted] »

plughs wrote: post #83

I feel like this article conflates 'smart device' with 'phone' in a way that can often happend My 8 year old has one of our old phones with WiFi only. It's still plenty addictive with with the thrill of games and TV. If you wait to talk about smart phone addiction until your kid gets cell service you're probably going to miss the boat. As my kid gets older - well the author may sneer at your kid waiting a few minutes…

[deleted]

Re: I Won’t Buy My Teenagers Smartphones

#100

Post by subpixel »

notacoward wrote: post #90
ls612 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I told you most parents don’t care what their (teen/young adult) children want, but instead care about what they want for said children?

What if I told you that what parents want for their children isn't necessarily what's best for said children?

What if I told you there is no scenario, at all, in which the best thing for any child is a smart phone, or a social media app, or the internet on any device?
Post reply on HN