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California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

nytimes.com

381–390 of 754 posts

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "flexibility" means precarity as the majority of gig employees do this full-time: >In California, the legislation will affect at least one million workers who have been on the receiving end of a decades-long trend of outsourcing and franchising work, making employer-worker relationships more arm’s-length. Many people have been pushed into contractor status with no access to basic protections like a minimum wage…

>Experts said that there is nothing in the bill that requires employees to work set shifts, and that Uber and Lyft are legally entitled to continue allowing drivers to make their own scheduling decisions. Well yeah, it doesn't force them to. Who are these "experts"? If Uber takes on 100,000 new employees and all of the costs that go along with them, why wouldn't they also manage them like... employees? You can't have…

There are plenty of companies who have successfully figured out the whole part-time flexible employee thing. I quit my last company, but they didn't want to lose me, so they wanted to keep me on as a flexible-part-timer and I didn't even have a set amount of hours I needed to work every week. As long as I was working less then something like 30 hours a week then they didn't need to provide me additional benefits like insurance and what not. This isn't rocket science. If Uber and Lyft are using public utilities/infrastructure for profit(like roads), then they should be obligated to pay the government to use that infrastructure to get their jobs done. If you don't work for Uber or are a shareholder, do you want to subsidize their business with tax payer money?

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "flexibility" means precarity as the majority of gig employees do this full-time: >In California, the legislation will affect at least one million workers who have been on the receiving end of a decades-long trend of outsourcing and franchising work, making employer-worker relationships more arm’s-length. Many people have been pushed into contractor status with no access to basic protections like a minimum wage…

>Experts said that there is nothing in the bill that requires employees to work set shifts, and that Uber and Lyft are legally entitled to continue allowing drivers to make their own scheduling decisions. Well yeah, it doesn't force them to. Who are these "experts"? If Uber takes on 100,000 new employees and all of the costs that go along with them, why wouldn't they also manage them like... employees? You can't have…

If they're doing it because it makes them more efficient or profitable, it makes sense. If they're just doing it to punish the state for changing the rules... well, that's their prerogative, but if it makes them less efficient they will lose ground to competitors.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#383

All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…

New York State just overhauled farm labor in a similar manner that will prevent most small farms from hiring by season... and in agriculture seasons can be 2 weeks to 2 months... but now you have to cover FT, benefits, plus unemployment insurance.

So in theory you can hire someone... they can work for 2 months and then collect unemployment after you run out of work for them because the earth's position changed and it's now winter.

New York State already pays about 4% above the national average for farm labor. All costs will just be passed on to consumers. Industry groups estimate that consumers will need to eat $300m in additional food costs per year.

The State Senator (from Queens) that authored the bill visited approximately 14 farms in NYS prior to writing the bill... and signed it in Manhattan... where farm labor money is now set to flow in the form of union fees being managed by hedge funds and banks.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These ( incredibly small ) requirements you list for having a small number of part time employees have been legal obligations for more than 50 years. So yes, you have to fill out 5 forms, and write 4 checks, every year for withheld taxes. But none of this qualifies for “it’s sad, it’s getting hard to be a small business”. They’re just things everyone in the US has been legally obligated to do for part time employees…

People with business degrees get a ton of crap in tech circles (god knows I've sent my share of snark their way over the years ;) ) ... but at the end of the day, there is value to someone learning those things, and people have been successfully thriving for decades as you mention under the exact same obligations. I think tech generally seeks to reduce friction as much as possible, even to its detriment ... like some…

I could be wrong, but I don't think my friends who got business degrees were learning how to fill out W-4s. They were learning things like "strategy" and "organisational behaviour" and apparently doing presentations every other week.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#385
post #375
post #288

This seems like terrible legislation. Yes, part time gig workers are exposed to harms that employees don’t face (i.e. lack of health insurance). But the ability to work flexibly and between lots of companies has huge upside for them and for firms. Why not tax companies who use these workers and put the tax revenue toward a special health insurance / social safety net specifically for gig workers? Mitigates many of th…

Welcome to California, politics here is full of great intentions and awful execution.

[deleted]

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#386

All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…

Hire a paid "intern".

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#387
post #288

This seems like terrible legislation. Yes, part time gig workers are exposed to harms that employees don’t face (i.e. lack of health insurance). But the ability to work flexibly and between lots of companies has huge upside for them and for firms. Why not tax companies who use these workers and put the tax revenue toward a special health insurance / social safety net specifically for gig workers? Mitigates many of th…

Sounds like your describing the social safety system in Europe

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#388

All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…

"employee protection" lawmaking is popular and makes lawmakers seem caring and thus reelectable. Did uber drivers in the past leave uber to flock to taxi companies who do hire them? AFAIK no, and they know that legislation like this will probably cause them to lose their chances at a job/gig. Different people different motives

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#389
post #288

This seems like terrible legislation. Yes, part time gig workers are exposed to harms that employees don’t face (i.e. lack of health insurance). But the ability to work flexibly and between lots of companies has huge upside for them and for firms. Why not tax companies who use these workers and put the tax revenue toward a special health insurance / social safety net specifically for gig workers? Mitigates many of th…

Sounds like your describing the social safety system in Europe

Sure—that seems like it can in certain instances be a great system. In general I think a fair/free labor market means individuals should have as many options as possible, including a government backstop, to leverage when negotiating with firms who want to buy their time.

Re: California passes bill that classifies gig economy workers as employees

#390

All these people making Uber money on the side ... the whole thing was possible in part due to the low friction in (and also complete disregard for) the regulatory environment. I’m in NYC and honestly can’t figure out how to legally hire a studio assistant for a few hours a week without being at risk for any of a number of lawsuit vectors. So I just coil my own cables. And I don’t mentor people who want to learn some…

People need to stop treating “gigs” as full time employment and find a real job. No one asked any of the people being “exploited” to quit their job and work as Uber drivers. They knew the associated costs going in, and they could’ve stopped anytime they wanted. Sorry about the rant. I just smell a lot of entitlement within this situation.
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