9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
281–290 of 293 posts
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google respects robots.txt, so it might be hard to prove that they are accessing websites without their implied consent. Also, their own robots.txt contains "Disallow: /search". So, there is arguably no inconsistency, either. But, what does this new ruling mean for robots.txt?
I think OP is getting at the nature of the relationship is kinda imbalanced. Consider basically most of their website is off limits: https://www.google.com/robots.txt
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
From reading the opinion, I think the argument goes something like this: > First, LinkedIn does not contest hiQ’s evidence that contracts exist between hiQ and some customers, including eBay, Capital One, and GoDaddy > Second, hiQ will likely be able to establish that LinkedIn knew of hiQ’s scraping activity and products for some time. LinkedIn began sending representatives to hiQ’s Elevate conferences in October 201…
That’s quite ... crazy. Be restaurant. Be on Deliveroo. Be getting low margins because of high fees. So basically you can’t decide not to use Deliveroo any more, to improve margina (“secure an exonomic advantage”). I mean, you can cancel Deliveroo, but only as long as you’re not “inducing a breach of their contract”. So only a matter of time before Deliveroo writes a contract “we’re obligated to deliver food for you…
"Be Restaurant" blocking Deliveroo because they can't continue operating with the loss of revenue due to high fees is a legitimate business reason. "Be Restaurant" blocking Deliveroo 2: Electric Boogaloo because I don't like their owner, but continuing to allow Deliveroo access would be, presumably, disallowed.
Also there's nothing stopping "Be Restaurant" from offering an exclusive delivery contract to Deliveroo and forcing Deliveroo 2 out, or requiring a minimum fee for all delivery services, Deliveroo and Deliveroo 2 included.
Of course, I think this is all in a very different area from a restaurant; we're talking about a service provided on the internet. I believe LinkedIn has many, many other recourses here, but, as I see it, the courts are just telling them, this aint it chief.
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect Xelbair is making a more expensive definition of net neutrality, taking as a basis the one that says it's about network operators only.
I think you wanted to say more expansive? But it's definitely also more expensive. :D
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#285Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
The data are certainly not free of copyright. Data can contain user picture, or even small essay describing the job, life of a user though linkedin is not the copyright holder. Moreover these are personal data, and I'm not sure that the scraper has the original user right to collect the data. In Europe, the scrapper may face issues related to GDPR.
Facts can't be copyrighted, so such things as whether or not a person worked for a certain company, or went to a certain school, are unprotected, and with this ruling can be scraped, at least in the U.S. Others things common on LinkedIn, as you rightly point out, are protected--but by copyright law, not the CFAA. So a scraper acting in good faith would have to be careful about what they used if they wanted to respect…
There's an infinite number of ways to describe a job history, without any single standard, so I don't think it makes any sense to say that a profile or resume is not copyrightable.
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ugh, yeah, the more I think about this ruling, the less I like it. It's actually pretty insane to force a site to serve content. I think both parties are in the wrong here - HiQ for assuming they're entitled to receive a response from LinkedIn's webservers, and LinkedIn for abusing the CFAA to try to deny service rather than figure out a technical solution to their business problem. In my view: * The data is public,…
I would argue that under spirit of net neutrality you either serve your site to everyone equally(the public facing part) or to no one. Hosting costs money, servers cost money.. but maybe create a public facing API that is way cheaper and easier to use than scraping your website? I see that ruling in positive light that it might promote more open and structured access to the public facing data.
That being said, if you provide data to the public, you don't get to invoke the CFAA to plug the holes your content discrimination code doesn't fill.
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
> under spirit of net neutrality you either serve your site to everyone equally(the public facing part) or to no one Huh? Net neutrality isn't about the server or client... it's about the network operator in between them.
I suspect Xelbair is making a more expensive definition of net neutrality, taking as a basis the one that says it's about network operators only.
Public facing internet sites, in my opinion, should be treated in same way as public space - anyone should be free to read, and write down in their notepad whatever is there, in the same way as anyone else.
Scraping public facing website in my opinion is huge waste of resources. It would be cheaper(in total) to build an API that can serve the data from it, than to build a good scraper.
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
They still scrape and index sites blocked by robots.txt, but they often don’t display those sites in their SERPs (but sometimes they still do)
Never seen it in any logs in 20 years. Do you have a source for that claim?
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.searchenginejournal.com/goog...
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google only scrapes sites that allow it by their robots.txt file so I don’t think their policy is as hypocritical as you are making it sound.
Google has an effective monopoly on search engine market - you _can't realistically_ block google from scraping your website. They have this power and they are abusing it. Also robots.txt is bullshit, if a person can access a public website why automated script shouldn't - technically speaking it's the same thing.
Imagine you have a piece of information that your neighbors in town come to you for every once in a while. They come over every now and again, ask you for it, maybe even bring you cookies for the trouble, and you provide it.
Then there's Ted.
Ted is insatiable. He hounds you at every minute of your day, constantly asking you the same question over and over. You've done everything you can. You tried to reason with Ted. You tried to contact whoever it is that brought Ted to your neighborhood. You even got so desperate, you moved a few houses down to escape the incessant hounding. That only worked for a little while though, and Ted found you again.
So you tried to stop answering the door; no use, he pokes his head in every time you're in the garage. You demanded people identify themselves first. Oh well, it's changed little. Now he just names himself gibberish names before hounding you for the same things over and over again.
This would not by any stretch of the imagination be acceptable behavior between two people. The main factor in determination for a court injunction would likely be physical trespass, or public nuisance; but no digital equivalent exists currently other than the CFAA, in the sense that in as much as one can prove that the access to the system is inconsistent with the intent or legal terms of providing a service, one may seek relief.
The problem is, LinkedIn has failed to make a convincing argument in the eyes of the appellate court that hiQ's Ted is violating the CFAA while LinkedIn has proactively engaged in activity disrupting hiQ's ability to do business; business which was consistent with the service granted to unknown members of the public at large.
In the Court's eyes, from the sounds of it, it appears LinkedIn is doing the greater harm.
What it looks like to me is this is setting up a common law framework that is going to cause website/service providers to have to choose from the get-go what their relationship to the Net is.
Are you just a transitor providing a service over the Net to a limited, select clientele bound by very specific terms of service? Then you may have a leg to stand on in fending off malignant Teds, but your exposure and onboarding will need to have concomitant friction to make the case to the Court that these Teds were never meant to be serviced in the first place.
Or, are you providing a public content portal, meant to make things accessible to everyone, with minimal terms? In which case, no legal Ted relief for you!
Just because it is your "syatem' and it isn't connected to your nervous system, does not mean it isn't capable of being caused harm to, or inflicting harm on someone else with careless muckery.
The one thing that disturbs me most is how the Court has disregarded the chilling effect that interpreting a duty to maintaining visibility may incur. A First Amendment challenge may end up being the inevitable result of this legal proceeding.