Earlier quoted context omitted.
"If this case is eventually decided in favor of hiQ, scrapers can no longer be blocked." If the case is decided in favour of hiQ, then, absent an injunction , what would prevent a website from blocking a scraper? Maybe the website could still block unless and until the scraper gets her lawyers to file an injunction. Another interpretation is that if hiQ wins, then in the 9th Circuit's jurisdiction websites serving pu…
Scraper bots have genders now?
9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
191–200 of 293 posts
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
It makes sense and it is how the internet works. Servers cherry pick who sees their content all the time. Scrapers are often blocked, as are entire IP address ranges. Things like Selenium server scrapers can be (approximately) detected and often are denied access. I’m not sure about being anti-competitive. Serving a website is an action in which you open up your resources for others to access. My friend runs an open…
He should open up a Patreon, tip jar, something to get that funded. Could also delay results, offer reduced temporal precision and other things to differentiate use cases.
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not allowing the CFAA to be (ab)used to attempt to make scraping illegal makes sense. However, how is it reasonable to force a web site to serve its contents to a third-party company, without being allowed to make a decision whether to serve it or not? Serving the web site costs money, and the scraper surely isn't going to generate ad income...
Ugh, yeah, the more I think about this ruling, the less I like it. It's actually pretty insane to force a site to serve content. I think both parties are in the wrong here - HiQ for assuming they're entitled to receive a response from LinkedIn's webservers, and LinkedIn for abusing the CFAA to try to deny service rather than figure out a technical solution to their business problem. In my view: * The data is public,…
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#194This action does more than that. The court left the preliminary injunction against LinkedIn in place: "The district court granted hiQ’s motion. It ordered LinkedIn to withdraw its cease-and-desist letter, to remove any existing technical barriers to hiQ’s access to public profiles, and to refrain from putting in place any legal or technical measures with the effect of blocking hiQ’s access to public profiles." So Lin…
Would it hold up if profiles were only visible to logged-in users and part of the sing-up EULA was an agreement not to scrape profiles with automated tools?
Well that's not automated, and slightly more costly but it gets you pretty close to the same effect.
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google only scrapes sites that allow it by their robots.txt file so I don’t think their policy is as hypocritical as you are making it sound.
This is true, but only technically. Google won't actively scrape anything disallowed in robots.txt, but those resources can still be indexed if found in the many other ways Google aggregates data, all of which is automated. Robots.txt isn't something that bars access to information. It's just a notice that the administrator does not want large amounts of queries against certain resources.
Many times Robots.txt are implemented with the interest of barring access to information.
This works by relying on scrapers respecting the file, but it's no different than a no-loitering sign which itself cannot actively stop someone who is loitering.
Google doesn't have a Robots.txt disallowing search because it can't handle a large amount of queries against a resource...
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not allowing the CFAA to be (ab)used to attempt to make scraping illegal makes sense. However, how is it reasonable to force a web site to serve its contents to a third-party company, without being allowed to make a decision whether to serve it or not? Serving the web site costs money, and the scraper surely isn't going to generate ad income...
Ugh, yeah, the more I think about this ruling, the less I like it. It's actually pretty insane to force a site to serve content. I think both parties are in the wrong here - HiQ for assuming they're entitled to receive a response from LinkedIn's webservers, and LinkedIn for abusing the CFAA to try to deny service rather than figure out a technical solution to their business problem. In my view: * The data is public,…
> First, LinkedIn does not contest hiQ’s evidence that contracts exist between hiQ and some customers, including eBay, Capital One, and GoDaddy
> Second, hiQ will likely be able to establish that LinkedIn knew of hiQ’s scraping activity and products for some time. LinkedIn began sending representatives to hiQ’s Elevate conferences in October 2015
> Third, LinkedIn’s threats to invoke the CFAA and implementation of technical measures selectively to ban hiQ bots could well constitute “intentional acts designed to induce a breach or disruption” of hiQ’s contractual relationships with third parties.
> Fourth, the contractual relationships between hiQ and third parties have been disrupted and “now hang[] in the balance.” Without access to LinkedIn data, hiQ will likely be unable to deliver its services to its existing customers as promised.
> Last, hiQ is harmed by the disruption to its existing contracts and interference with its pending contracts. Without the revenue from sale of its products, hiQ will likely go out of business.
> LinkedIn does not specifically challenge hiQ’s ability to make out any of these elements of a tortious interference claim. Instead, LinkedIn maintains that it has a “legitimate business purpose” defense to any such claim. ... That contention is an affirmative justification defense for which LinkedIn bears the burden of proof.
So the real situation is that you can't go out and start blocking access you knew about in a way that would interfer with third party contracts without a legitimate business reason to do so. The burden of proving the legitimacy of that business reason is on you.
edit: TLDR;
> "A party may not ... under the guise of competition ... induce the breach of a competitor’s contract in order to secure an economic advantage."
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not allowing the CFAA to be (ab)used to attempt to make scraping illegal makes sense. However, how is it reasonable to force a web site to serve its contents to a third-party company, without being allowed to make a decision whether to serve it or not? Serving the web site costs money, and the scraper surely isn't going to generate ad income...
Does their robots.txt say don't crawl this part of the site? If it does, this ruling is catastrophic. If it doesn't then there is hope.
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, how is it reasonable to force a web site to serve its contents to a third-party company, without being allowed to make a decision whether to serve it or not? Your statement makes absolutely no sense. That's not how internet works. If you serve something publicly you don't get to cherry pick who sees it. Not only it makes no sense technically it's also a huge anti-competitive case.
It makes sense and it is how the internet works. Servers cherry pick who sees their content all the time. Scrapers are often blocked, as are entire IP address ranges. Things like Selenium server scrapers can be (approximately) detected and often are denied access. I’m not sure about being anti-competitive. Serving a website is an action in which you open up your resources for others to access. My friend runs an open…
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ugh, yeah, the more I think about this ruling, the less I like it. It's actually pretty insane to force a site to serve content. I think both parties are in the wrong here - HiQ for assuming they're entitled to receive a response from LinkedIn's webservers, and LinkedIn for abusing the CFAA to try to deny service rather than figure out a technical solution to their business problem. In my view: * The data is public,…
The data are certainly not free of copyright. Data can contain user picture, or even small essay describing the job, life of a user though linkedin is not the copyright holder. Moreover these are personal data, and I'm not sure that the scraper has the original user right to collect the data. In Europe, the scrapper may face issues related to GDPR.
Re: 9th Circuit holds that scraping a public website does not violate the CFAA [pdf]
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
The data are certainly not free of copyright. Data can contain user picture, or even small essay describing the job, life of a user though linkedin is not the copyright holder. Moreover these are personal data, and I'm not sure that the scraper has the original user right to collect the data. In Europe, the scrapper may face issues related to GDPR.
Facts can't be copyrighted, so such things as whether or not a person worked for a certain company, or went to a certain school, are unprotected, and with this ruling can be scraped, at least in the U.S. Others things common on LinkedIn, as you rightly point out, are protected--but by copyright law, not the CFAA. So a scraper acting in good faith would have to be careful about what they used if they wanted to respect…